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Anyone considering investing in solar panels will of course expect that it will be a while before they have paid for themselves producing valuable electricity. How long it will take to reach break even depends on many factors: The initial price of the system including full installation, the longevity of the hardware components of the system itself, the price rate structure of the utility energy provider including the grid operator, taxes on both sell and buy rates, whether you opt to include battery storage, and how much the system changes the value of the building on which the it is installed. Of course you could have a situation where panels are just installed and you pay on a monthly basis without actually owning the system in which case none of the following matters, except maybe the electric vehicle bits.

A Typical Solar Installation

To be honest, the overall question of this article is in reality impossible to answer accurately for any given system, but since I’ve had my solar panels for exactly 10 years know, I can at least provide some data for you to look at. These basic data of how much electricity is generated is useful for making more precise calculations for your local pricing structure, and thus help you forecast how long a given system you are interested in would be able to pay for itself. But first, some specifications on my system:

  • 16 panels with a total peak capacity of 4 kWp (I have only come close to this output at noon on very cold and windy summer days).
  • 2 inverters capable of 2 kW throughput each (at the time this was cheaper than 1 single 4 kW inverter and would make it easier to install an extra 2 kWp had I needed it).
  • Price including all hardware, installation, and tax credit (in 2011 the labour cost was deductible in Denmark): 100,000 DKK ($16,000). A similar system price today 10 years later: 50,000 — 70,000 DKK ($8,000 — 11,000) depending on local tax credits.
  • Geographical attributes: Panels facing south at a 30 degree angle, latitude and longitude (Decimal degrees): 56.3332, 10.3826.

Why not 6 kW, which is the largest allowed grid connected system on private property in my area? Well, although it would easily fit on my roof, I simply could not afford it at the time, and up until I got an electric car it would have more capacity than I needed all things considered.

Things to consider that can have a positive impact utilizing excess energy periods when not having opted for a battery as storage:

  • Fridge and deep freezer with timer.
  • Water heater with timer.
  • HVAC system with timer and zone optimisation.
  • Electric vehicle with timer and rate configuration of charge.
  • Training you own sense of when to use electricity, like vacuuming and washing when the sun is shining.

Of the points above I have really only focused on the last two in my everyday routines, and when the electric vehicle came into play, it became a challenge to micromanage the system to optimize the utilization of the system. It just so happened that the local net metering scheme changed at about the same time I purchased my latest EV, and it actually resulted in choosing the larger battery option in the car than I had originally planned. I have described the detailed considerations in an earlier article, and it seems obvious now 2 years later that the larger EV battery was worth it.

My calculations at the time showed that a battery that was 20 kWh larger would pay for itself within 10 years if I could manage the charging just by prioritizing sunshine. Since then I have changed my electricity supplier to one that sells electricity cheaper when wind turbines produce more power, thus making me prioritize charging in windy situations too.

Electricity consumption

First and foremost let’s look at electricity consumption. On average I use 3,000 kWh of electricity every year in my household. I do not use electricity for heating or cooling my house which is why total consumption might seem low. I am connected to district heating, and in Denmark the average outdoor temperature is so low that use of air conditioning systems (HVAC) for cooling is rare.

In the graph below covering a decade of net electricity consumption I have highlighted 4 years:

  • 2010 (blue): No solar panels and no EV. This represents my baseline electricity consumption in a typical full year.
  • 2014 (yellow): Solar panels installed, but still no EV. From March through September I get a surplus of electricity production.
  • 2016 (green): First full year of driving an EV, Nissan Leaf, 25,000 km/year (16,000 miles/year). Electricity consumption doubles to 6,000 kWh, and only in the summer is it possible to balance out consumption and production.
  • 2021 (red): With a Tesla Model 3 long range 75 kWh driving 35,000 km/year (22,000 miles/year) and the yearly net metering out the window, I prioritize free referral code Supercharging in the winter when solar power is low.

When I bought my panels a net metering scheme based on yearly accounting was in effect, but 2 years ago it was replaced with hourly accounting, which left many private solar system owners angry and a class-action lawsuit was initiated but dismissed in court. For nearly 8 years I had conveniently been able to do the math once a year: Subtract kWh consumed from kWh produced and as it turned out the average 3,750 kWh produced each year covered with a comfortable margin the 3,000 kWh consumed.

Getting and EV in the household countered to some degree the disadvantage of net metering on a yearly basis to an hourly basis by making sure to charge as often as possible when the panel generated a surplus of electricity. As mentioned this is the reason I chose a larger range EV than I had planned for. The 20+ kWh of battery capacity in the long range Tesla Model 3 made it easier to charge less often in order to prioritize the sunshine. Not perfect, but still noticeable in terms of freedom of when to charge compared to the low range Nissan Leaf and BMW i3 I had been driving the years prior.

Electricity Production

In order to get a sense of when an investment in a solar power installation will have paid for itself it is of course essential to pay close attention to how much electricity is being generated by the system.

In the graphs below it’s evident that I live relatively far north on the northern hemisphere. Note that this year in red actually deviates quite a lot from the yearly average since May and July usually are the best performing months due to slightly lower average temperatures than June. Solar panels perform best with clear skies and low temperatures preferably with a breeze cooling the panel even more. That’s why you see record outputs in May and July because June is often hotter and more humid. Except this year giving the exact opposite of the norm.

You might think that the sun is up the longest in June and thus should give more power, but since the panels are oriented south and given how far north I live, the sun rises in the north-east and sets in the north-west, sunlight in those very early and late hours do not fall on the panels.

What about degradation? Well, 10 years is of course not a lot to go by, but if the trend in the graph showing total year output persists there might be a couple of percent performance loss per decade. The big risk with panels is more in terms of build quality. If they puncture and moisture gets inside they will fail fast. I chose a high quality brand at the time, even though there where many much cheaper options available. In fact I could have saved 30 — 40% in total costs, but I figured that might cut the lifetime by maybe 50% thinking 4 decades out, and indeed I have spotted many solar panels of the same age and lower price beginning to deteriorate. Since production of silicon based solar panels is an energy intensive process, the longer they sit on the roof producing energy the better.

Note: In Denmark I pay roughly 2.2 DKK/kWh (35 cents/kWh) for grid electricity including taxes. When I sell surplus electricity to the grid I get paid a maximum of 0.3 DKK/kWh (5 cents/kWh) because taxes are not a part of it. No, this is not a typo, there is a lot of tax on energy in this country. This incentifies me to use my generated electricity rather than sell it, which is a challenge with hourly net metering. This is where a home battery and/or EV helps a lot.

Break Even

So, when will the system have paid for itself? Well, in my situation, accounting for the many variable parameters, it looks as if it will be another 2 years before I can say the panels finally produces energy for free. That’s 12 years total, which is not bad considering the panels themselves has a 20 year warranty on construction defects. I expect no less than 30 years of operation.

Checking prices today, I find that an equivalent quality system would cost 60% of what I paid 10 years ago including installation, so investing in solar just makes even more sense now, and more so going forward. Solar panel prices has fallen almost 10× in the last 15 years!

However, it gets more complicated when an EV is included in the mix. You could argue that the EV is part of the system, and that you would now have to look at the combined cost of the solar system and electric vehicle as one single utility since they are practically dependent of each other. I save money on energy to move the car around, and I am able to soak up the surplus energy from the panels much more efficiently.

I could choose to ask the question of when the whole package has paid for it self compared to buying all the electricity from the grid or compare the payback time of the electric vehicle to an equivalent fossil fueled vehicle. In any case solar and EV is without a doubt a win-win.

The share of global solar energy will certainly accelerate with battery storage pricing plummeting. Will I invest in a home battery? I will consider it when energy arbitrage and virtual power plants becomes the norm. In such a scenario it might even be feasible to move the old panels over on top of my garage and replace my whole 50 year old roof with solar tiles. Who knows?

The Takeaway

So, as I said, it’s no easy task to answer the main question of this article, and it is clear that the financial parameters change all the time, so maybe one should not spend too much time trying to calculate this to perfection, but rather just get on with investing in a solar system and rejoice over the savings from day one. It probably will pay off in the end no matter what.

And remember, it is clear that if you plan to include an EV into the mix sooner or later, a matching installed solar capacity could greatly lower the payback time for the combined financial expenditure, more so the more your driving needs.

Below is a few photos of the installation of my panels 10 years ago:

16 panels each with a peak output of 250 Watts

Panels are configured in 2 strands connected to 2 separate 2 kW inverters

The finished system busy doing its photon to electron magic



 


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Tesla hints at finally producing the next-gen Roadster in new job listing

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Tesla hints at finally producing the next-gen Roadster in new job listing

Tesla is talking about finally bringing the next-generation Roadster to production in new job listing.

However, you shouldn’t hold your breath.

The prototype for the next-generation Tesla Roadster was unveiled in 2017 and was supposed to enter production in 2020, but it has been delayed each year since then.

It has become a running gag in the Tesla community and an example of CEO Elon Musk’s tendency to stretch the truth about timelines.

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Since missing its original 2020 production timeline, Musk has given six updated production timelines for the new electric supercar, and each has been wrong.

The latest timeline hasn’t even been about producing the vehicle. It has been about the unveiling of a new version of the next-generation as the last prototype of what is supposed to be a “next-gen” car was unveiled almost a decade ago.

Musk has been talking about an unveiling and demonstration of the New Roadster by the end of the year.

This week, Tesla has posted a new job listing for a ‘Manufacturing Engineer, Roadster‘. In the job description, Tesla mentions working on battery manufacturing equipment for the Roadster:

Tesla is looking to hire a Manufacturing Engineer to contribute to the concept development and launch of battery manufacturing equipment for our cutting-edge Roadster vehicle. In this role you will take large scale manufacturing systems for new battery products and architectures from the early concept development stage through equipment launch, optimization and handover to local operations teams. Battery development is at the heart of our company, and this is an exciting opportunity to work directly on the central challenges for the all-new Roadster product architecture while still in its early development stages.

The comment does point to Tesla starting to set up manufacturing for the production of the new Roadster.

Since this does sound like early manufacturing development work, it would be optimistic to hope to see new Roadsters rolling off the production line by the end of next year. More likely to be in 2027.

In its updated annual installed production capacity chart, Tesla listed Roadster production as still being in the “design development” phase as of last week:

The location of Roadster production is also listed as “to be determined.”

The new job listing for a manufacturing engineer on the Roadster program mentions being based in Fremont, which could mean Tesla plans to launch production at its California factory.

Tesla next-gen Roadster

Tesla Roadster

As unveiled in 2017, the new Roadster was supposed to get 620 miles (1,000 km) of range and accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in 1.9 seconds.

It was listed for $200,000, and a “Founder Series” was also offered for $250,000.

At the time, Tesla used the Roadster as a prize for its referral program when it badly needed to generate sales. A few dozen Tesla owners referred enough new sales to win one or two free new Roadsters each.

Some have suspected that Tesla didn’t want to bring the vehicle to production because it would have to deliver over 30 of them for free and hundreds more at heavy discounts due to its original referral program.

Others believe that updates to the vehicles have led to delays.

Shortly after the unveiling of the next-gen Roadster in 2017, Musk discussed adding cold-air thrusters to the supercar to deliver unprecedented racing performance and possibly even allow it to hover over the ground.

The CEO referenced demonstrating that the “Roadster can fly” on several occasions in the last few years.

Electrek’s Take

It looks like we are talking about the Roadster possibly coming to market in 2027—maybe late 2026 at the earliest.

That’s roughly 10 years after it was unveiled.

I’ll believe it when I see it. And if it does happen, I might have one or two flying Roasters for sale.

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TV brand SHARP gets into the EV game with this living room on wheels

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TV brand SHARP gets into the EV game with this living room on wheels

Just like it says on the tine: TV brand SHARP is following Sony into the automotive space with the new LDK+ concept that transforms into a mobile movie theater. It’s a type of concept we’ve seen before – but not like this!

The SHARP LDK+ promises to be a Living room, a Dining room, and a Kitchen on wheels – and more (the plus, obviously), building off the decidedly more blobular™ concept first shown back in 2024. This updated version, however, takes the LDK concept and brings it significantly closer to reality by basing it on Foxconn’s “Model A EV by Hon Hai Technology Group” chassis.

And, now that it’s a little bit closer to some kind of reality, it might be time to climb on the SHARP hype train and take a minute to genuinely enjoy the movie/gaming environment the company is promising to deliver with the LDK+ concept.

Get hyped, kids


SHARP LDK interior, by the Yomiuri Shimbun; via The Japan News.

Not to be overly crude here, but if you roll in a van with a sliding projector table, opaque windows, and fully reclining seats, you probably hit the “family planning” section of your local Walgreens on a regular basis. Similarly, as more and more young people find themselves struggling to afford their own space, offering a vehicle that delivers a little privacy. And even if that’s more Netflix than chill, I think it’s bound to find a few buyers.

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Whether I’m right or wrong about that will remain to be seen for a while, however. The official press release is light on specs, offering the following description of the LDK+ concept …

The second iteration of “LDK+” retains the original concept while featuring both high maneuverability with its compact body and a spacious, relaxing interior. Developed based on the“Model A” EV by Hon Hai Technology Group (Foxconn), this compact minivan model offers an expansive cabin layout.

When parked, the vehicle can be used as a theater room or a remote workspace. A console box equipped with a table and projector is placed between the driver’s and passenger’s seats. By swiveling the driver’s seat to face backward, it creates a living room-like atmosphere where you can sit around with the rear seats. Pulling down the screen installed above the rear seats allows you to enjoy movies or conduct online meetings on a large display. Through Sharp’s AIoT platform, which connects AI and home appliances, the vehicle links with household devices such as kitchen appliances, air conditioning, and laundry systems. The AI learns residents’ lifestyles and preferences, creating personalized new ways of living. In addition, the system can connect with V2H (Vehicle to Home) solutions, enabling efficient energy management by integrating solar power generation and residential storage batteries.

SHARP

… but skipping automotive basics like battery capacity, anticipated driving range, and the usual horsepower and torque figures. Pricing and, perhaps most importantly, when the vehicle might see the light of day weren’t revealed, either.

SHARP LDK+ concept


All of which is to say: they’re probably never going to actually build something like this – and that’s too bad, because a new-age Honda Element/Nissan Cube-style boxy little EV would absolutely sell like hotcakes.

SOURCE | IMAGES: SHARP, The Japan News.


If you’re considering going solar, it’s always a good idea to get quotes from a few installers. To make sure you find a trusted, reliable solar installer near you that offers competitive pricing, check out EnergySage, a free service that makes it easy for you to go solar. It has hundreds of pre-vetted solar installers competing for your business, ensuring you get high-quality solutions and save 20-30% compared to going it alone. Plus, it’s free to use, and you won’t get sales calls until you select an installer and share your phone number with them. 

Your personalized solar quotes are easy to compare online and you’ll get access to unbiased Energy Advisors to help you every step of the way. Get started here.

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Forget the myths: EV batteries are now more than 99% recyclable

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Forget the myths: EV batteries are now more than 99% recyclable

All those people who want you to believe mining for EV batteries is as dirty as drilling for oil? They don’t want you to know about recycling – and they really don’t want you to know about a new pilot recycling program is promising a radical leap in battery recycling efficiency, with recovery reportedly rates exceeding 99% for critical metals like nickel, cobalt, and manganese.

Thanks to a new, highly detailed, and (crucially) enforceable regulatory framework of 22 national standards backed by a newly formed national technical committee, a team of Chinese-led researchers is raising the bar when it comes to battery recycling efficiency.

These new standards brings together stakeholders from raw material supply, battery production, recycling and dismantling, and chemical processing disciplines to address battery recycling needs across automotive, marine, and energy storage applications. The rules feature titles like, “Vehicle power battery recycling and dismantling specification,” and, “Vehicle power battery remaining energy detection (standard),” and provide the nation’s auto industry with clear and uniform procedures for handling retired batteries.

The results of a single, standardized approach have been revolutionary, and companies adhering to the new protocols are, according to CarNewsChina, seeing recovery rates of 99.6% for nickel, cobalt, and manganese, and an impressive 96.5% for lithium – figures that were once considered a distant goal for the global industry.

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Electrek’s Take


EV battery recycled metals
Reclaimed battery materials; by BASF.

Despite being presented as an environmental liability, EV batteries represent a single sunk carbon cost that diminishes rapidly over time. Simply put: the more you use an EV battery, the greener it gets – and now that more than 99% of the battery materials can be recycled and reused in batteries that are as good as or better than they were the first time around, the batteries can become a predictable source of critical raw materials, generating significant economic value while drastically reducing the need for virgin mining and encouraging domestic job growth.

Too bad our own US policymakers can’t get this one right.

SOURCE | IMAGES: CarNewsChina; Enel.


If you’re considering going solar, it’s always a good idea to get quotes from a few installers. To make sure you find a trusted, reliable solar installer near you that offers competitive pricing, check out EnergySage, a free service that makes it easy for you to go solar. It has hundreds of pre-vetted solar installers competing for your business, ensuring you get high-quality solutions and save 20-30% compared to going it alone. Plus, it’s free to use, and you won’t get sales calls until you select an installer and share your phone number with them. 

Your personalized solar quotes are easy to compare online and you’ll get access to unbiased Energy Advisors to help you every step of the way. Get started here.

FTC: We use income earning auto affiliate links. More.

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