Former health secretary Sajid Javid has warned that the NHS “won’t survive many more years” without “fundamental reforms”, urging the country to have an “honest debate” about the service.
In his only broadcast interview since announcing he would stand down at the next general election, the MP told the Beth Rigby Interviews programme that tackling the NHS was his unfinished business in politics.
And he admitted the Conservatives faced a “tough” battle to stay in power at the general election, adding: “The odds are stacked against us.”
Mr Javid ran the Department of Health between June 2021 and July 2022, having replaced Matt Hancock after his resignation for breaking COVID guidance.
But he quit himself over the summer, having lost confidence in the then-prime minister Boris Johnson – leading to a wave of resignations that ultimately resulted in the leader’s downfall.
Speaking to Beth Rigby, Mr Javid said he would have “liked to have more time” as health secretary to look at the reforms he believes it so desperately needs.
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“I don’t think the model of the NHS as it was set up some 70 years ago is sustainable for the future,” he said.
“You know that the world has changed and the NHS has not moved on with that.”
The ex-minister said “a starting point” for reform would be to look at the universal health care systems in other large European countries.
He added: “If you speak to any German you might know or French person, Italian, they have good health care systems that were also challenged by the pandemic, but they seem to all be doing better than we are.
“They are mostly funded by the taxpayer but they also have some different models.”
Image: Sajid Javid was health secretary for just over a year, but told Beth Rigby he would have liked more time in the role
Mr Javid would not go as far to say he backed a particular model, like health insurance or those who can paying more for their care, but he welcomed “having that kind of discussion, because we need to have this honest debate as a country”.
“The moment a politician of any party says something that is obviously correct about the NHS and the challenges it faces, someone else will just jump down their throat and turn it into something else, you know, turn into the big negative,” he added.
“We all want the NHS to be there. I rely on the NHS, my family, all our loved ones, your loved ones, your viewers.
“The pressures are so immense, and the pandemic has made it doubly so, that if we as a country, if we neglect this debate now, I am afraid in my opinion after the experience I’ve had I don’t think the NHS will survive many more years on what it says on paper it has to deliver unless we start making fundamental reforms.”
‘Odds are stacked against us’
In a wide-ranging interview, the former cabinet minister also reflected on how recent political turmoil had hurt the Conservatives.
He said external issues like the war in Ukraine and the pandemic would be challenging for any government to come through.
But he also pointed to the revelations over COVID lockdown parties in Number 10, saying: “The rules were broken in Downing Street and people didn’t like that, and rightly they didn’t like that, and it hurt Boris Johnson in particular but it hurt the government at the time”.
Image: Sajid Javid was the first minister to resign in a wave of exits that led to the downfall of Boris Johnson
“If you look at the current polling it is obvious the odds are stacked against us,” added Mr Javid. ” I think anyone would admit that, it looks tough.”
However, despite not initially backing Rishi Sunak to replace Mr Johnson – instead getting behind Liz Truss – he said Mr Sunak offered the Tories the best chance at the ballot box.
“We’ve got a fantastic prime minister in place that really gets it, is one of the smartest people, one of the most capable I have ever come across,” said Mr Javid.
“We’ve now come out with the right result and amongst all Conservative MPs we have the best possible leader we could have right now.
“[At the next election] it will be a choice between Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer, and I think when the country is presented with that choice, people will come to the conclusion that Rishi Sunak is the right person to take us forward.”
‘Truss wasn’t up to the job’
So why did he back Ms Truss first time round?
The former chancellor said he wanted to see tax cuts, but claimed “what she actually did and how she did it were very different” to what he expected.
“I think it was obvious right from the start really she wasn’t going to be up to the job,” he said.
“The biggest challenge was the economy and if you look back… in the run up to that mini-budget the sort of fighting that was going on behind the scenes with the Bank of England I think was completely wrong.”
Image: Sajid Javid served alongside Liz Truss in Boris Johnson’s cabinet, but tells Beth Rigby it was a ‘mistake’ to back her in the leadership contest
Mr Javid also said it was “completely wrong” to sideline the Office for Budget Responsibility when it came to her economic plans, and to fire the permanent secretary to the Treasury as soon as she took office.
“This was the gentleman, Sir Tom Scholar, who had been serving the government for three decades,” he added.
“He was my permanent secretary, he is one of the best civil servants we have in this country, and I think just treating someone like that in that way was unacceptable.
“And that is before the mini-budget and then it just got worse and worse at that point. So I think it is something that was a very bad period for our country.”
But the MP said: “I don’t think that that period, that six-week period, is going to cost us the election.”
‘A personal toll’
Asked about why he was standing down at the next election, Mr Javid told Beth Rigby “there comes a time for everyone to move on”.
But, he added: “It feels like in the last decade that politics has been on some kind of fast forward, one crises after another, one international challenge after another.
“Politicians, I think cross-party, are trying their best in that but it does take a personal toll on you as well, as me as an individual, but of course also on my family.”
Watch Beth Rigby Interviews with Sajid Javid at 9pm tonight on Sky News.
Image: An Israeli attack in Tehran, Iran, ahead of the ceasefire. Pic: Majid Asgaripour/WANA via Reuters
Without such preparations, and sometimes even with them, ceasefires will tend to be breached – perhaps by accident, perhaps because one side does not exercise full control over its own forces, perhaps as a result of false alarms, or even because a third party – a guerrilla group or a militia, say – choose that moment to launch an attack of their own.
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Timeline of Israel-Iran conflict so far
The important question is whether a ceasefire breach is just random and unfortunate, or else deliberate and systemic – where someone is actively trying to break it.
Either way, ceasefires have to be politically reinforced all the time if they are to hold.
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Furious Trump lashes out at Israel and Iran
All sides may need to rededicate themselves to it at regular intervals, mainly because, as genuine enemies, they won’t trust each other and will remain naturally suspicious at every twitch and utterance from the other side.
This is where an external power like the United States plays a critical part.
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If enemies like Israel and Iran naturally distrust each other and need little incentive to “hit back” in some way at every provocation, it will take US pressure to make them abide by a ceasefire that may be breaking down.
Appeals to good nature are hardly relevant in this respect. An external arbiter has to make the continuance of a ceasefire a matter of hard national interest to both sides.
And that often requires as much bullying as persuasion. It may be true that “blessed are the peacemakers”.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy has given a wide-ranging interview to Sky News in which he was asked about the prospect of Russia attacking NATO, whether he would cede land as part of a peace deal and how to force Vladimir Putin to the negotiating table.
“We believe that, starting from 2030, Putin can have significantly greater capabilities,” he said. “Today, Ukraine is holding him up, he has no time to drill the army.”
But while Mr Zelenskyy conceded his ambition to join NATO “isn’t possible now”, he asserted long term “NATO needs Ukrainians”.
US support ‘may be reduced’
Asked about his views on the Israel-Iran conflict, and the impact of a wider Middle East war on Ukraine, Mr Zelenskyy accepted the “political focus is changing”.
“This means that aid from partners, above all from the United States, may be reduced,” he said.
“He [Putin] will increase strikes against us to use this opportunity, to use the fact that America’s focus is changing over to the Middle East.”
On the subject of Mr Putin’s close relationship with Iran, which has supplied Russia with attack drones, Mr Zelenskyy said: “The Russians will feel the advantage on the battlefield and it will be difficult for us.”
Image: Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelenskyy speaking to Mark Austin
Trump and Putin ‘will never be friends’
Mr Zelenskyy was sceptical about Mr Putin’s relationship with Donald Trump.
“I truly don’t know what relationship Trump has with Putin… but I am confident that President Trump understands that Ukrainians are allies to America, and the real existential enemy of America is Russia.
“They may be short-term partners, but they will never be friends.”
On his relationship with Mr Trump, Mr Zelenskyy was asked about whether he felt bullied by the US president during their spat in the Oval Office.
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“I believe I conducted myself honestly. I really wanted America to be a strong partner… and to be honest, I was counting on that,” he said.
In a sign of potential frustration, the Ukrainian president added: “Indeed, there were things that don’t bring us closer to ending the war. There were some media… standing around us… talking about some small things like my suit. It’s not the main thing.”
Mr Zelenskyy was clear he supported both a ceasefire and peace talks, adding that he would enter negotiations to understand “if real compromises are possible and if there is a real way to end the war”.
But he avoided directly saying whether he would be willing to surrender four annexed regions of Ukraine, as part of any peace deal.
“I don’t believe that he [Putin] is interested in these four regions. He wants to occupy Ukraine. Putin wants more,” he said.
“Putin is counting on a slow occupation of Ukraine, the reduction in European support and America standing back from this war completely… plus the removal of sanctions.
“But I think the strategy should be as follows: Pressure on Putin with political sanctions, with long-range weapons… to force him to the negotiating table.”
Russia ‘using UK tech for missiles’
On Monday, Mr Zelenskyy met Sir Keir Starmer and agreed to share battlefield technology, boosting Ukraine’s drone production, which Mr Zelenskyy described as a “strong step forward”.
But he also spoke about the failure to limit Russia’s access to crucial technology being used in military hardware.
He said “components for missiles and drones” from countries “including the UK” were being used by Russian companies who were not subject to sanctions.
“It is vitally important for us, and we’re handing these lists [of Russian companies] over to our partners and asking them to apply sanctions. Otherwise, the Russians will have missiles,” he added.
At least 25 people have been killed after Israeli forces opened fire towards people waiting for aid trucks in Gaza, according to witnesses and hospitals.
The Awda hospital in the Nuseirat refugee camp, which received the victims, said the Palestinians were waiting for the trucks on a road south of Wadi Gaza.
Witnesses told the Associated Press (AP) news agency Israeli forces opened fire as people were advancing to be close to the approaching trucks.
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Israeli ambassador challenged on Gaza deaths
The Awda hospital said another 146 Palestinians were wounded. Among them were 62 in a critical condition, who were transferred to other hospitals in central Gaza, it added.
In the central town of Deir al-Balah, the Al Aqsa Martyrs hospital said it received the bodies of six people who were killed in the same incident.
“It was a massacre,” one witness, Ahmed Halawa, said.
He said tanks and drones fired at people, “even as we were fleeing – many people were either martyred or wounded”.
Another witness, Hossam Abu Shahada, said drones were flying over the area, watching the crowds. Then there was gunfire from tanks and drones, leaving a “chaotic and bloody” scene as people attempted to escape.
He said he saw at least three people lying on the ground motionless and many others wounded as he fled.
The Israeli military did not immediately comment on the reports.
Philippe Lazzarini, the head of the UN’s Palestinian refugee agency, described the aid delivery mechanism in Gaza as “an abomination that humiliates and degrades desperate people”.
He added: “It is a death trap, costing more lives than it saves.”
A spokesperson for the UN’s Human Rights Office said: “The weaponisation of food for civilians, in addition to restricting or preventing their access to life-sustaining services, constitutes a war crime and, under certain circumstances, may constitute elements of other crimes under international law.”
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Around 56,000 Palestinians have been killed during the Israel-Hamas war in Gaza, according to the territory’s Hamas-run health ministry. The ministry says more than half of the dead were women and children, but does not distinguish between civilians and militants in its count.
The war began after Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October 2023, when militants stormed across the border and killed around 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and took another 251 hostages. Most of the hostages have been released in ceasefire agreements.