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Shou Zi Chew, chief executive officer of TikTok Inc., speaks during the Bloomberg New Economy Forum in Singapore, on Wednesday, Nov. 16, 2022.

Bryan van der Beek | Bloomberg | Getty Images

TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew will face a tough crowd on Thursday when he testifies before the House Energy and Commerce Committee while his company is on the brink of a potential ban in the U.S.

Although TikTok is the one in the hot seat on Thursday, the hearing will also raise existential questions for the U.S. government regarding how it regulates technology. Lawmakers recognize that the concerns over broad data collection and the ability to influence what information consumers see extend far beyond TikTok alone. U.S. tech platforms including Meta’s Facebook and Instagram, Google’s YouTube, Twitter and Snap’s Snapchat have raised similar fears for lawmakers and users.

That means that while trying to understand whether TikTok can effectively protect U.S. consumers under a Chinese owner, lawmakers will also have to grapple with how best to address consumer harms across the industry.

Conversations with lawmakers, congressional aides and outside experts ahead of the hearing reveal the difficult line the government needs to walk to protect U.S. national security while avoiding excessive action against a single app and violating First Amendment rights.

Evaluating a potential ban

There’s little appetite in Washington to accept the potential risks that TikTok’s ownership by Chinese company ByteDance poses to U.S. national security. Congress has already banned the app on government devices and some states have made similar moves.

The interagency panel tasked with reviewing national security risks stemming from ByteDance’s ownership has threatened a ban if the company won’t sell its stake in the app.

Still, an outright ban raises its own concerns, potentially missing the forest for the trees.

“If members focus solely on the prospect of a ban or a forced sale without addressing some of the more pervasive issues, particularly those facing children and younger users, shared by TikTok and U.S.-based social media companies, I think that would be a mistake,” Rep. Lori Trahan, D-Mass., a committee member, told CNBC in an interview on Tuesday. Trahan said members should ask about national security risks of the app, but those questions should be substantive.

A TikTok advertisement at Union Station in Washington, DC, US, on Wednesday, March 22, 2023. 

Nathan Howard | Bloomberg | Getty Images

Rep. Gus Bilirakis, R-Fla., who chairs the E&C subcommittee on innovation, data and commerce, said he and many of his colleagues are going into the hearing open to solutions.

“We have to be open-minded and deliberate,” Bilirakis told CNBC in an interview on Wednesday. “But at the same time, time is of the essence.”

If the government moves for a ban where the concerns could reasonably be mitigated with a less restrictive measure, it could pose First Amendment issues, according to Jameel Jaffer, executive director of the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University.

“A ban here is in some ways under-inclusive because it would be focused just on TikTok or a small number of platforms, when in fact many other platforms are collecting this kind of information as well,” Jaffer said. “And in other ways, it would be over-broad because there are less restrictive ways that the government could achieve its ends.”

While some might wonder if cutting off Americans’ access to TikTok is really such a violation of rights, Jaffer said the public should consider it in terms of the U.S. government’s authority to decide which media Americans can access.

“It’s a good thing that if the government wants to ban Americans from accessing foreign media, including foreign social media… it has to carry a heavy burden in court,” Jaffer said.

Many lawmakers agree that the government should make its case more clearly to the American public for why a ban is necessary, should it go that route. The bipartisan RESTRICT Act recently introduced in the Senate, for example, would require such an explanation, to the extent possible, when the government wants to limit foreign-owned technology for national security reasons.

Trahan said she could support legislation similar to the RESTRICT Act in the House, which would create a process to mitigate national security risks of technologies from foreign adversary countries, but passing such a bill would still not be enough.

“The message that I want folks to hear is that we cannot afford to pass this legislation or something like it, watch the administration ban or force the sale of TikTok and declare victory in the fight to rein in the abuses of dominant Big Tech companies,” Trahan said. “I think the conversation right now about a ban certainly threatens to let Big Tech companies off the hook, and it’s on Congress not to fall into that trap.”

Even if the U.S. successfully banned TikTok or forced it to spin off from ByteDance, there’s no way to know for sure that any earlier-collected data is out of reach of the Chinese government.

“If that divestment would occur, how do you segregate the code bases between ByteDance and TikTok?” asked John Lash, who advises clients on risk mitigation agreements with the Committee on Foreign Investment in the U.S. (CFIUS) but hasn’t worked for TikTok or ByteDance. “And how is the U.S. government going to get comfortable that the asset, TikTok, which is hypothetically sold, is free of any type of backdoor that was either maliciously inserted or just weaknesses in code, errors that occur regularly in how code is structured?”

“I think the concern is valid. My big issue is that genie’s sort of out of the bottle,” Eric Cole, a cybersecurity consultant who began his career as a hacker for the Central Intelligence Agency, said of the data security fears. “At this point, it’s so embedded that even if they were successful in banning Tiktok altogether, that the damage is done.”

Addressing industry-wide concerns

Thursday’s hearing will feature several lawmakers on both sides of the aisle calling for comprehensive privacy reform, like the kind the panel passed last year but never made it to the floor for a vote.

Those calls serve as recognition that many of the concerns about TikTok, apart from its ownership by a Chinese company, are shared by other prominent tech platforms headquartered in the U.S.

Both Trahan and Bilirakis mentioned the need for privacy reform as a more systemic solution to the issues raised by TikTok. Both are especially concerned about the social media company’s potentially harmful impacts on children and said they would drill down on TikTok’s protections in the hearing.

TikTok has touted a complex plan known as Project Texas to help ease U.S. concerns over its ownership. Under the plan, it will base its U.S. data operations domestically and allow its code to be reviewed and sent to the app stores by outside parties.

A TikTok advertisement at Union Station in Washington, DC, US, on Wednesday, March 22, 2023. 

Nathan Howard | Bloomberg | Getty Images

Chew plans to tell Congress that he strongly prioritizes the safety of users, and particularly teens, that TikTok will firewall U.S. user data from “unauthorized foreign access,” it “will not be manipulated by any government” and it will be transparent and allow independent monitors to assess its compliance.

Experts and even some lawmakers acknowledge that Project Texas offers a step forward on some aspects of consumer protection they’ve pushed for in the tech industry more broadly.

“TikTok is in a really unique position right now to take some positive steps on issues that a lot of top American companies have fallen behind and frankly even regressed on whether it’s protecting kids or embracing transparency,” Trahan said. While she believes there are still many questions TikTok needs to answer about the adequacy of Project Texas, Trahan said she is “hopeful” about the company’s professed “openness to stronger transparency mechanisms.”

Lawmakers and aides who spoke with CNBC ahead of the hearing emphasized that comprehensive privacy legislation will be necessary regardless of what action is taken against TikTok in particular. That’s how a similar situation in the future may be prevented, and a way to hold U.S. companies to higher standards as well.

But given federal digital privacy protections don’t currently exist, Lash said the U.S. should consider what it would mean if Project Texas were to go away.

“In lieu of comprehensive federal data privacy regulation in the United States, which is needed, does Project Texas give the best available option right now to protect national security?” asked Lash, whose advisory is one of a small group of firms with the expertise to advise the company on an agreement should a deal go through. “And does it continue if ByteDance is forced to divest their interests?”

The plan appears to address the issues that lawmakers are concerned about, said Lash, but what it can’t address are “the theoretical risks around may happen, could happen as it relates to the application.”

“I would say, based on what I’ve seen out in the public, it does seem to comprehensively address a lot of the real technical risks that may be arising,” he said.

Still, policymakers appear skeptical that Project Texas reaches that bar.

An aide for the House Energy and Commerce Committee who was only authorized to speak on background told reporters earlier this week that TikTok’s risk mitigation plans were “purely marketing.” Another aide for the committee noted that even if the U.S. can be assured the data is secure, it’s impossible to comb through all the existing code for vulnerabilities.

E&C Chair Cathy McMorris Rodgers, R-Wash., supports a ban to address the immediate risks TikTok poses as well as comprehensive privacy legislation that passed through the committee last Congress to prevent repeat situations, according to E&C aides.

TikTok’s strategy

Rep. Jamaal Bowman (D-NY) speaks at a news conference outside the U.S. Capitol Building on February 02, 2023 in Washington, DC.

Anna Moneymaker | Getty Images

On Wednesday, Bowman held a press conference with dozens of creators, opposing the ban and saying rhetoric around the app is a sort of “red scare” pushed primarily by Republicans. He said he supports comprehensive legislation addressing privacy issues across the industry, rather than singling out one platform. Bowman noted lawmakers haven’t received a bipartisan congressional briefing from the administration on national security risks stemming from TikTok.

“Let’s not have a dishonest conversation,” Bowman said. “Let’s not be racist toward China and express our xenophobia when it comes to TikTok. Because American companies have done tremendous harm to American people.”

Reps. Mark Pocan, D-Wisc., and Robert Garcia, D-Calif., joined Bowman and the creators, announcing their opposition to a ban. Garcia, who is openly gay, said it’s important that young queer creators “are able to find themselves in this space, share information and feel comfortable, in some cases come out.”

“Honestly it’s done best on the TikTok platform than any other social media platform that currently exists, certainly in the United States,” Garcia said.

Creators at the event on Wednesday shared the opportunities that TikTok has afforded them that aren’t available in the same way on other apps. Several creators who spoke with CNBC said they have other social media channels but have far fewer followers on them, due in part to the easy discoverability built into TikTok’s design.

“I’ve been on social media for probably ten years,” said David Ma, a Brooklyn-based content creator, director and filmmaker on TikTok. But it wasn’t until he joined TikTok that his following grew exponentially, to more than 1 million people. “It’s given me visibility with people that are going to fundamentally change the trajectory of my career.”

Tim Martin, a college football coach in North Dakota who posts about sports on TikTok to a following of 1 million users, estimated 70% of his income comes from the app. Martin credits the TikTok algorithm with getting his videos in front of users who truly care about what he has to share, which has helped him grow his following there far more than on Instagram.

But TikTok’s attempt to shift the narrative to positive stories from creators and users may still fall flat for some lawmakers.

Bilirakis said the strategy is “not resonating with our colleagues. Definitely not with me.” That’s because he hears other anecdotes about constituents’ encounters with the app that make him worry for teens’ safety.

“I do think there’s a chance that it may not necessarily have the impact that TikTok is looking for,” said Jasmine Enberg, a social media analyst for Insider Intelligence. “It’s more evidence of how firmly entrenched the app is in the digital lives of Americans, which isn’t necessarily going to help convince us lawmakers that TikTok can’t be used or isn’t being used to influence public opinion.”

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Microsoft AI chief Suleyman sees advantage in building models ‘3 or 6 months behind’

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Microsoft AI chief Suleyman sees advantage in building models ‘3 or 6 months behind’

Microsoft owns lots of Nvidia graphics processing units, but it isn’t using them to develop state-of-the-art artificial intelligence models.

There are good reasons for that position, Mustafa Suleyman, the company’s CEO of AI, told CNBC’s Steve Kovach in an interview on Friday. Waiting to build models that are “three or six months behind” offers several advantages, including lower costs and the ability to concentrate on specific use cases, Suleyman said.

It’s “cheaper to give a specific answer once you’ve waited for the first three or six months for the frontier to go first. We call that off-frontier,” he said. “That’s actually our strategy, is to really play a very tight second, given the capital-intensiveness of these models.”

Suleyman made a name for himself as a co-founder of DeepMind, the AI lab that Google bought in 2014, reportedly for $400 million to $650 million. Suleyman arrived at Microsoft last year alongside other employees of the startup Inflection, where he had been CEO.

More than ever, Microsoft counts on relationships with other companies to grow.

It gets AI models from San Francisco startup OpenAI and supplemental computing power from newly public CoreWeave in New Jersey. Microsoft has repeatedly enriched Bing, Windows and other products with OpenAI’s latest systems for writing human-like language and generating images.

Microsoft’s Copilot will gain “memory” to retain key facts about people who repeatedly use the assistant, Suleyman said Friday at an event in Microsoft’s Redmond, Washington, headquarters to commemorate the company’s 50th birthday. That feature came first to OpenAI’s ChatGPT, which has 500 million weekly users.

Through ChatGPT, people can access top-flight large language models such as the o1 reasoning model that takes time before spitting out an answer. OpenAI introduced that capability in September — only weeks later did Microsoft bring a similar capability called Think Deeper to Copilot.

Microsoft occasionally releases open-source small-language models that can run on PCs. They don’t require powerful server GPUs, making them different from OpenAI’s o1.

OpenAI and Microsoft have held a tight relationship shortly after the startup launched its ChatGPT chatbot in late 2022, effectively kicking off the generative AI race. In total, Microsoft has invested $13.75 billion in the startup, but more recently, fissures in the relationship between the two companies have begun to show.

Microsoft added OpenAI to its list of competitors in July 2024, and OpenAI in January announced that it was working with rival cloud provider Oracle on the $500 billion Stargate project. That came after years of OpenAI exclusively relying on Microsoft’s Azure cloud. Despite OpenAI partnering with Oracle, Microsoft in a blog post announced that the startup had “recently made a new, large Azure commitment.”

“Look, it’s absolutely mission-critical that long-term, we are able to do AI self-sufficiently at Microsoft,” Suleyman said. “At the same time, I think about these things over five and 10 year periods. You know, until 2030 at least, we are deeply partnered with OpenAI, who have [had an] enormously successful relationship for us.

Microsoft is focused on building its own AI internally, but the company is not pushing itself to build the most cutting-edge models, Suleyman said.

“We have an incredibly strong AI team, huge amounts of compute, and it’s very important to us that, you know, maybe we don’t develop the absolute frontier, the best model in the world first,” he said. “That’s very, very expensive to do and unnecessary to cause that duplication.”

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Former Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer says, as shareholder, tariffs are ‘not good’

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Former Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer says, as shareholder, tariffs are 'not good'

President Trump’s new tariffs on goods that the U.S. imports from over 100 countries will have an effect on consumers, former Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer told CNBC on Friday. Investors will feel the pain, too.

Microsoft’s stock dropped almost 6% in the past two days, as the Nasdaq wrapped up its worst week in five years.

“As a Microsoft shareholder, this kind of thing is not good,” Ballmer said, in an interview with Andrew Ross Sorkin that was tied to Microsoft’s 50th anniversary celebration. “It creates opportunity to be a serious, long-term player.”

Ballmer was sandwiched in between Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates and current CEO Satya Nadella for the interview.

“I took just enough economics in college — that tariffs are actually going to bring some turmoil,” said Ballmer, who was succeeded by Nadella in 2014. Gates, Microsoft’s first CEO, convinced Ballmer to join the company in 1980.

Gates, Ballmer and Nadella attended proceedings at Microsoft’s Redmond, Washington, campus on Friday to celebrate its first half-century.

Between the tariffs and weak quarterly revenue guidance announced in January, Microsoft’s stock is on track for its fifth straight month of declines, which would be the worst stretch since 2009. But the company remains a leader in the PC operating system and productivity software markets, and its partnership with startup OpenAI has led to gains in cloud computing.

“I think that disruption is very hard on people, and so the decision to do something for which disruption was inevitable, that needs a lot of popular support, and nobody could game theorize exactly who is going to do what in response,” Ballmer said, regarding the tariffs. “So, I think citizens really like stability a lot. And I hope people — individuals who will feel this, because people are feeling it, not just the stock market, people are going to feel it.”

Ballmer, who owns the Los Angeles Clippers, is among Microsoft’s biggest fans. He said he’s the company’s largest investor. In 2014, shortly after he bought the basketball team for $2 billion, he held over 333 million shares of the stock, according to a regulatory filing.

“I’m not going to probably have 50 more years on the planet,” he said. “But whatever minutes I have, I’m gonna be a large Microsoft shareholder.” He said there’s a bright future for computing, storage and intelligence. Microsoft launched the first Azure services while Ballmer was CEO.

Earlier this week Bloomberg reported that Microsoft, which pledged to spend $80 billion on AI-enabled data center infrastructure in the current fiscal year, has stopped discussions or pushed back the opening of facilities in the U.S. and abroad.

JPMorgan Chase’s chief economist, Bruce Kasman, said in a Thursday note that the chance of a global recession will be 60% if Trump’s tariffs kick in as described. His previous estimate was 40%.

“Fifty years from now, or 25 years from now, what is the one thing you can be guaranteed of, is the world needs more compute,” Nadella said. “So I want to keep those two thoughts and then take one step at a time, and then whatever are the geopolitical or economic shifts, we’ll adjust to it.”

Gates, who along with co-founder Paul Allen, sought to build a software company rather than sell both software and hardware, said he wasn’t sure what the economic effects of the tariffs will be. Today, most of Microsoft’s revenue comes from software. It also sells Surface PCs and Xbox consoles.

“So far, it’s just on goods, but you know, will it eventually be on services? Who knows?” said Gates, who reportedly donated around $50 million to a nonprofit that supported Democratic nominee Kamala Harris’ losing campaign.

— CNBC’s Alex Harring contributed to this report.

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AppLovin can offer TikTok ‘much stronger bid than others,’ CEO says

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AppLovin can offer TikTok 'much stronger bid than others,' CEO says

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AppLovin CEO Adam Foroughi provided more clarity on the ad-tech company’s late-stage effort to acquire TikTok, calling his offer a “much stronger bid than others” on CNBC’s The Exchange Friday afternoon.

Foroughi said the company is proposing a merger between AppLovin and the entire global business of TikTok, characterizing the deal as a “partnership” where the Chinese could participate in the upside while AppLovin would run the app.

“If you pair our algorithm with the TikTok audience, the expansion on that platform for dollars spent will be through the roof,” Foroughi said.

The news comes as President Trump announced he would extend the deadline a second time for TikTok’s Chinese-owned parent company ByteDance to sell the U.S. subsidiary of TikTok to an American buyer or face an effective ban on U.S. app stores. The new deadline is now in June, which, as Foroughi described, “buys more time to put the pieces together” on AppLovin’s bid. 

“The president’s a great dealmaker — we’re proposing, essentially an enhancement to the deal that they’ve been working on, but a bigger version of all the deals contemplated,” he added.

AppLovin faces a crowded field of other interested U.S. backers, including Amazon, Oracle, billionaire Frank McCourt and his Project Liberty consortium, and numerous private equity firms. Some proposals reportedly structure the deal to give a U.S. buyer 50% ownership of the company, rather than a complete acquisition. The Chinese government will still need to approve the deal, and AppLovin’s interest in purchasing TikTok in “all markets outside of China” is “preliminary,” according to an April 3 SEC filing.

Correction: A prior version of this story incorrectly characterized China’s ongoing role in TikTok should AppLovin acquire the app.

WATCH: AppLovin CEO Adam Foroughi on its bid to buy TikTok

AppLovin CEO Adam Foroughi on its bid to buy TikTok

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