Louis Theroux on taking risks, causing offence, and his notorious TV interviews
TV journalist Louis Theroux has interviewed everyone from porn stars to prisoners, known for deftly encouraging even the most combative or private interviewees to open up.
Theroux, who rose to fame with his Weird Weekends series 25 years ago, was asked to deliver this year’s James MacTaggart Memorial lecture at the Edinburgh TV Festival, covering the challenges facing broadcasters “in the multi-platform universe”.
He follows in the footsteps of historian David Olusoga, actress and producer Michaela Coel, and former BBC journalist Emily Maitlis – who hit out at her former employer when she gave the lecture in 2022.
In his speech, titled The Risk Of Not Taking Risks, Theroux made his case for the type of journalism he is known for, in an era when it might sometimes be easier for TV bosses to play it safe.
The documentary-maker reflected on his own career as well as the current state of the BBC, with whom he has made a large number of programmes.
“If I’m honest, I find the new world we are in troubling and exciting in roughly equal measure,” he told his audience of TV bosses and industry experts…
“I am a contrarian and I appreciate seeing a complacent old guard discomfited by a grubby insurrectionary crowd of digital sans-culottes. But I also value truth and honesty and the rule of law.”
Here are five key points from his speech to TV bosses:
Tackling tricky subjects in 2023
Louis Theroux made a film about scientology in 2015. Pic: BBC/BBCWorldwide
Dicussing changing attitudes to representation and power, Theroux said: “We are, I’m happy to say, more thoughtful about representation, about who gets to tell what story, about power and privilege, about the need not to wantonly give offence. I am fully signed up to that agenda.
“But I wonder if there is something else going on as well. That the very laudable aims of not giving offence have created an atmosphere of anxiety that sometimes leads to less confident, less morally complex filmmaking.
“And that the precepts of sensitivity have come into conflict with the words inscribed into the walls of New Broadcasting House, attributed to George Orwell: ‘If Liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.’
“And that as a result programmes about extremists and sex workers and paedophiles might be harder to get commissioned.”
‘The Tates and the Trumps’
Theroux warned of the danger of looking away from more extreme and provocative corners of the internet out of fears of platforming hate and misinformation.
“With so much madness around, it’s tempting to ignore what’s out there. To not amplify it. Hope it goes away. To not platform it. Avoid the risk… I think that’s wrong.”
Theroux went on to reference former US president Donald Trump and controversial influencer Andrew Tate.
“Much of the new world epitomised by the Trumps and the Tates is based on the idea of monetising provocation. It relies on pushing people’s buttons to get our attention,” he said. “Spreading sexism, racism, homophobia, sometimes dressing it up as irony, or comedy, while promoting a bigoted agenda. They do this both for both fun and profit.”
The debate surrounding the platforming of hate and misinformation “could be compared to debates around food and diet and the proper labelling of sugar and fat”, he said.
“As with junk food, so too with junk facts. People can consume what they like but we could all do with a little help being nudged towards healthier choices, rather than having the information equivalent of chocolate bars on a two-for-one offer stacked in our eyeline every time we turn on our phones.
“I understand all of this. I share the urge to switch off all the negativity. To turn one’s attention elsewhere. To not feed the trolls. To never go anywhere near the trolls. I understand the need to consider people’s wellbeing. To think through all the possible prejudices that may be contained in programmes. The impact of jokes and unconscious bias. All of the multiple ways in which a TV show can do harm.
“But it’s also true that there is a big difference between platforming and doing challenging journalism about controversial subjects.”
‘There was an urge to depict him in ever more lurid terms’
Theroux made two programmes about Jimmy Savile, and addressed these during the lecture. The first was in 2000, when he filmed with the DJ and TV fundraiser over 10 days, before his crimes were fully uncovered after his death in 2011. The second was made in 2016, looking at how he escaped notice as a serial sex offender for so long.
The first “did not entail huge risk on my part”, Theroux said, and at the time he was nervous mainly because he was worried Savile was “over the hill” and “past-it”.
The follow-up was very different. “I was among many examining their consciences to figure out if there was anything I could have done differently,” Theroux said. “In making a second programme, I wanted to do justice to the scale of the harm he had caused. That, in itself, felt like a lot of pressure.”
However, he said the “more worrying” issue was dealing with unconfirmed allegations, such as claims Savile had “dismembered small children” and been involved in “satanic rituals”.
“The outrage at his crimes was so convulsive, there was also an urge to depict them in ever more lurid terms,” he said. “None of this had been credibly reported, but there were many who believed it might be true, and pushing back, making the case for a judicious weighing of the evidence, laid one open to charges of ‘minimising’.”
The “high-risk approach”, he said, was actually “to take a considered and dispassionate look”, keep “a forensic and questioning attitude” – and “not ignore the fact that for 40 years he charmed an audience of millions”.
On the BBC’s ‘no-win’ situation
Theroux said he understood why traditional TV makers might be fearful of taking risks.
“From working so many years at the BBC, and still making programmes for the BBC, I see all-too-well the no-win situation it often finds itself in. Trying to anticipate the latest volleys of criticisms. Stampeded by this or that interest group. Avoiding offence.
“Often the criticisms come from its own former employees, writing for privately owned newspapers whose proprietors would be all too happy to see their competition eliminated. And so there is the temptation to lay low, to play it safe, to avoid the difficult subjects.
“But in avoiding those pinch points, the unresolved areas of culture where our anxieties and our painful dilemmas lie, we aren’t just failing to do our jobs, we are missing our greatest opportunities… and what after all is the alternative? Playing it safe. Following a formula. That may be a route to success for some. It never worked for me.”
Why he’s not scared of AI
Early in his speech, Theroux addressed deepfakes and artificial intelligence (AI), saying Hollywood writers are striking, “among other reasons, because of valid concerns over robots cannibalising their creativity”.
He expanded on this later on, saying he does not “overly worry about a takeover by AI” in the type of programmes he makes. “I say this not as an expert on AI,” he said, “but as an expert on humans.
“We’ve all seen the amazing results AI can produce. In a few years it may be able to write a passable sitcom or action movie. Or a MacTaggart. Maybe an excellent one. Maybe one better than this. But what it won’t be able to do is take risks. Because risk involves danger. And there’s no danger for machines. Risk involves real feeling. The possibility of humiliation, embarrassment, failure.
“Humans experience all those emotions and more… we connect over the frailties we have in common. We feed on the recognition of the common lot of human weakness. And when we recognise something real, there’s no substitute for it.”
Entertainment
Criminal investigation launched into Glastonbury performances of Kneecap and Bob Vylan
A criminal investigation has been launched into the Glastonbury performances of Kneecap and Bob Vylan.
Police announced the decision on Monday afternoon after reviewing video footage and audio of both sets, which took place on Saturday.
It comes after the BBC said it regretted the decision not to pull the live stream for Bob Vylan’s Glastonbury performance, during which frontman Bobby Vylan shouted anti-IDF (Israel Defence Forces) chants.
The punk-rap duo have also had US visas revoked and been dropped by their US representative, United Talent Agency.
Later on Monday, as the story had made headlines throughout the day, drummer Bobbie Vylan released a video statement on Instagram, saying politicians who have spent time criticising the band should be “utterly ashamed” for giving “room” to this over other issues.
He also addressed what was said on stage, saying: “Regardless of how it was said, calling for an end to the slaughter of innocents is never wrong. To civilians of Israel, understand this anger is not directed at you, and don’t let your government persuade you that a call against an army is a call against the people.”
Moglai Bap and Mo Chara of Kneecap perform at Glastonbury. Pic: Reuters
In a statement, Avon and Somerset Police said that after reviewing footage of both performances, further enquiries are required and a criminal investigation is now being undertaken.
“A senior detective has been appointed to lead this investigation,” a spokesperson said. “This has been recorded as a public order incident at this time while our enquiries are at an early stage.”
The force said the investigation will be “evidence-led and will closely consider all appropriate legislation, including relating to hate crimes”.
“We have received a large amount of contact in relation to these events from people across the world and recognise the strength of public feeling,” it added. “There is absolutely no place in society for hate.”
What happened?
Bob Vylan performing on the West Holts Stage, during the Glastonbury Festival at Worthy Farm in Somerset. Yui Mok/PA Wire
During Bob Vylan’s set, the duo performed in front of a screen that showed several messages, including one that said Israel’s actions in Gaza amount to “genocide”.
Bobby Vylan also led chants of “death to the IDF”.
The set was live streamed by the BBC as part of its Glastonbury coverage, but has not been made available on demand.
Politicians including the prime minister have criticised the performance. Glastonbury organiser Emily Eavis said the chants “crossed a line” and that there was no place at the festival for “antisemitism, hate speech or incitement to violence”.
A BBC spokesperson said the broadcaster respected freedom of expression “but stands firmly against incitement to violence”.
They added: “The antisemitic sentiments expressed by Bob Vylan were utterly unacceptable and have no place on our airwaves…
“The team were dealing with a live situation, but with hindsight we should have pulled the stream during the performance. We regret this did not happen.”
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What’s the Glastonbury controversy?
Media watchdog Ofcom said it was in talks with the BBC and that the broadcaster “clearly has questions to answer” over the stream.
Irish-language rap trio Kneecap were on stage afterwards. Before their appearance at the festival, there had been calls for Glastonbury to remove them from the bill – as rapper Liam Og O hAnnaidh (who performs as Mo Chara) is facing a terror charge, accused of displaying a flag in support of the proscribed group Hezbollah at a gig in London last November.
Glastonbury organisers kept them on the line-up, but the BBC chose not to stream their set live. An edited version was later made available on demand.
On stage, the band led chants of “f*** Keir Starmer”.
O hAnnaidh’s bandmate Naoise O Caireallain (Moglai Bap) said they would “start a riot outside the courts” for O hAnnaidh’s next appearance, before clarifying: “No riots, just love and support, and support for Palestine.”
Hundreds of people turned out in protest for his first court appearance earlier this month.
After the police investigation was announced, Culture Secretary Lisa Nandy criticised the “appalling and unacceptable” scenes at Glastonbury and said the government would not tolerate antisemitism.
She said she had called BBC director-general Tim Davie after the broadcast of Bob Vylan’s set to find out why it had aired, and why the feed had not been cut.
“I expect answers to these questions without delay,” she said.
Ms Nandy said she had spoken to members of the Jewish community, including attendees at Glastonbury, who said they were concerned by imagery and slogans and ended up creating their own “safe space”.
Christopher Landau, the US deputy secretary of state, said the band had been banned from the US ahead of a tour later this year due to their “hateful tirade” at the festival.
Bob Vylan were set to perform in Chicago, Brooklyn and Philadelphia in the autumn. They are due to perform at Radar Festival in Manchester on Saturday and Boardmasters, a surfing and music festival in Newquay, Cornwall, in August.
Sharing a statement on Instagram after the Glastonbury set, Bobby Vylan said: “Teaching our children to speak up for the change they want and need is the only way that we make this world a better place.
“As we grow older and our fire starts to possibly dim under the suffocation of adult life and all its responsibilities, it is incredibly important that we encourage and inspire future generations to pick up the torch that was passed to us.”
The war in Gaza, which has continued for more than 18 months, began after Hamas militants launched attacks in Israel on 7 October 2023, killing 1,200 people and taking roughly 250 hostages.
More than 860 Israeli soldiers have been killed since the war began, more than 400 of them during the fighting in Gaza.
Israel’s offensive in Gaza has devastated the enclave and killed around 56,500 people, according to the Hamas-run health ministry, which does not differentiate between civilians and combatants, but says more than half of the dead are women and children.
An inquest has found drag queen The Vivienne did not intend to take their life when they died after taking ketamine.
Coroner Jacqueline Devonish concluded The Vivienne, whose real name is James Lee Williams, died by “misadventure” after suffering cardio respiratory arrest.
Williams, who won the first series of RuPaul’s Drag Race UK in 2019, was found dead at the age of 32 in the bath at their home in Cheshire on 5 January this year.
In March, the star’s family revealed the performer had died “from the effects of ketamine use causing a cardiac arrest”, saying they wanted to raise awareness about the dangers of the drug.
Cheshire Coroner’s Court heard five drug snap bags were found, including in a bedroom draw and a bin in the bathroom, in their home in Chorlton-by-Backford, near Chester.
Police attended and confirmed there were no suspicious circumstances.
The inquest heard friends and family had no worries about Williams’s mental health and the performer was looking forward to future roles on TV and in the theatre, although did “occasionally” take ketamine.
The star’s family told the hearing the performer should not be remembered for their use of the Class B drug and that drugs did not define the person they were.
Williams’s father Lee Williams described them as “an outgoing character who was full of life” and “just wanted to make people laugh”.
“He achieved his goals. He had future goals he wanted to achieve. Along the way he always wanted to try to help his community, which he did and try to help other drag queens,” he said.
“He was always available. He never turned anybody down. He never turned his back on anybody. He never said no.
“He loved the stage, that’s where he saw the rest of his career being, on the stage, in the theatre. That’s what he loved to do.”
Williams’s funeral in Bodelwyddan, Denbighshire, North Wales, was attended by RuPaul’s Drag Race UK contestants Tia Kofi and Baga Chipz, along with Steps singer Ian “H” Watkins, TV personality Kim Woodburn and Coronation Street actress Claire Sweeney.
The Vivienne at the premiere of the film ‘Wicked’ in November 2024. Pic: AP
During their time on the show, under their drag name, Williams admitted having been a drug addict for four years.
“It was party, drugs, but I couldn’t leave the drugs at the party, it was constant for me,” they said.
They added that their addiction was a “habit that caught on a bit too quick and a bit too hard”.
The TV personality, who grew up in Colwyn Bay, North Wales, before moving to Liverpool, came third in the 2023 edition of Dancing On Ice.
The star performed as the Wicked Witch of the West in a UK and Ireland tour of The Wizard Of Oz musical and reprised the role in the West End at the Gillian Lynne Theatre last year.
They were due back on stage in March as the Childcatcher in a tour of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, a role they first played last year.
The government is seeking expert advice after illegal use of ketamine surged to record levels.
In the year ending March 2023, an estimated 299,000 people aged 16 to 59 had reported use of the substance, which is controlled as class B, according to the Home Office.
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