Horizon inquiry: Post Office fraud investigator denies team ‘behaved like mafia gangsters’
A Post Office fraud investigator today denied he and other investigators “behaved like mafia gangsters” – as he faced questions at the inquiry into the Horizon IT system.
Stephen Bradshaw, a Post Office employee for more than 45 years, was involved in the criminal investigation of nine sub-postmasters.
During more than seven hours of questioning at the inquiry in London, a bullish Mr Bradshaw…
• Denied he and other investigators “behaved like mafia gangsters”;
• Refuted claims he was a bully and called a sub-postmistress a “b****h” on the phone;
• Said he was “not technically minded” when asked why he did not question Horizon system;
• Told the inquiry he was “no expert” on the system, but had working knowledge;
• Said statement he signed saying Post Office had “absolute confidence” in Horizon was not written by him.
Throughout his witness statement, submitted earlier to the inquiry, Mr Bradshaw said his investigations had been conducted in a “professional” manner.
He also said in the statement: “I refute the allegation that I am a liar.”
‘Not technically minded’
Mr Bradshaw, a witness in the inquiry into the Post Office Horizon scandal, began giving evidence on Thursday morning.
His evidence was given at the start of phase 4 of the inquiry, which has been hearing witnesses since February 2022 and has already heard from many of the victims.
Mr Bradshaw was involved in the criminal investigation of nine sub-postmasters, including Lisa Brennan, a former counter clerk at a post office in Huyton, near Liverpool, who was falsely accused of stealing £3,000 in 2003. She was one of the first witnesses to the inquiry.
Stephen Bradshaw gives evidence to the inquiry
Mr Bradshaw was questioned by counsel to the inquiry, Julian Blake, about why he did not question the reliability of the Horizon system.
He acknowledged he was aware of newspaper reports of technical bugs but said: “I’m not technically minded with that. I would expect that to come from the people above.
“If there was an issue, I would expect Fujitsu [the maker of Horizon] to inform the Post Office and the Post Office to let us know what the issues are.”
Asked how early on he was aware of Horizon being an issue, he said 2010, but “some may have mentioned it earlier”.
‘Investigations done correctly’
Mr Blake also asked Mr Bradshaw if, over the past 20 years, he “may have been involved in what has been described as one of the largest miscarriages of justice in British history?”.
Mr Bradshaw said he had “no reason to suspect at the time” that there was anything wrong with the Horizon system, because his team had “not been involved”.
“The investigations were done correctly,” he said.
“The investigations were done at the time, no problems were indicated by anybody that there were issues with the Horizon system.”
‘You have told me a pack of lies’
Mr Bradshaw had previously been accused by Merseyside sub-postmistress Rita Threlfall of asking her for the colour of her eyes and what jewellery she wore, before saying: “Good, so we’ve got a description of you for when they come”, during her interview under caution in August 2010.
Another sub-postmistress, Jacqueline McDonald, claimed she was “bullied” by Mr Bradshaw during an investigation into a shortfall of more than £94,000.
In her interview with Mr Bradshaw, which was read to the inquiry, Ms McDonald was accused by the investigator of telling him a “pack of lies”.
The exchange between Ms McDonald and Mr Bradshaw, read by Mr Blake, included the investigator saying: “Would you like to tell me what happened to the money?”
Ms McDonald replies: “I don’t know where the money is I’ve told you.”
Mr Bradshaw continues: “You have told me a pack of lies.”
Ms McDonald says: “No I haven’t told you a pack of lies because I haven’t stolen a penny.”
Mr Blake said the witness’s words sounded “somewhat like language you might see in a 1970s television detective show”.
Read more from Sky News:
Investigators ‘offered bonuses’ to prosecute sub-postmasters
Mass exoneration of sub-postmasters ‘right thing to do’, says minister
Responding to Ms McDonald’s allegations of his aggressive behaviour in his witness statement, Mr Bradshaw said: “I also refute the claim that Jacqueline McDonald was bullied.
“From the moment we arrived, the auditor was already on site, conversations were initially (held) with Mr McDonald, the reason for our attendance was explained, Mr and Mrs McDonald were kept updated as the day progressed.”
At the inquiry, Mr Bradshaw added: “Ms Jacqueline McDonald is also incorrect in stating Post Office investigators behaved like mafia gangsters looking to collect their bounty with the threats and lies.”
Post Office bonuses
Mr Bradshaw was asked about whether staff were paid bonuses for successful prosecutions.
He told the inquiry that “bonuses have always been paid by the Royal Mail Group and Post Office”.
Sir Wyn Williams is chairing the inquiry
Asked if success in a criminal case would impact the amount paid, Mr Bradshaw replied: “No, not at all.”
“I’m paid whether one case is done or a thousand cases,” he said.
“We don’t get any extra bonus because of this. It’s how well you do your job.”
Mr Blake then asked: “If you’re considered to have protected the business and prevented the wider impact on the business, do you think that that might lead to a bonus?”
Mr Bradshaw replied: “It may do, and it may not do.”
‘Absolute confidence in Horizon’
Mr Bradshaw was asked about a letter, signed by him in November 2012, in which he declared the Post Office’s “absolute confidence” in the “robustness and integrity” of the Horizon system
He told the inquiry that the statement was written by lawyers from the law firm Cartwright King.
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Asked if it was appropriate for him to declare “confidence” in the IT system in the 2012 statement, he said: “I was given that statement by Cartwright King and told to put that statement through.
“In hindsight… there probably should have been another line stating, ‘These are not my words’.”
Mr Bradshaw told the inquiry he was not “technically minded” and was not equipped to know whether there were bugs or errors in the Horizon system.
The statutory inquiry, which began in 2021 and is chaired by retired judge Sir Wyn Williams, has previously looked at the human impact of the scandal, the Horizon system roll-out and the operation of the system, and is now probing the action taken against sub-postmasters.
The probe was established to ensure there is a “public summary of the failings which occurred with the Horizon IT system at the Post Office” and subsequently led to the wrongful convictions of sub-postmasters.
Britain should have access to the EU’s rearmament fund before the end of the year but “wounds of Brexit” mean some member states want it to be limited, the bloc’s foreign affairs chief has said.
Kaja Kallas told Sky News’ political editor Beth Rigby that the “technical details” of Security Action for Europe (SAFE) still need to be sorted out.
SAFE is a €150bn (£126bn) fund to provide loans to EU nations and other participants to bolster their defences.
Politics Live: Starmer says EU deal ‘win-win’
As part of Sir Keir Starmer’s new reset deal with the EU, a new defence partnership was struck that will allow the UK to access it.
Asked when this might be, Ms Kallas said: “The SAFE instrument has just been finalised between the institutions but it also needs approval from the European Council. And when that is done, we also move on with the implementation of that, and that is in the coming months.”
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Who wins from the UK-EU deal?
Asked about reports that some member states think there should be a limit on what the UK can access, she said: “ Of course these discussions are there. We have the wounds from Brexit very clearly.
“I mean you wanted to exit the European Union and then there are many voices who say that you shouldn’t have the same benefits from the European instruments that the European Union countries have.”
According to The Times, France is pushing to freeze the UK out of 85% of the fund.
Kaja Kallas, the EU’s high representative for foreign affairs. Pic: Reuters
Asked if Britain’s access should be higher, Ms Kallas said her personal view is that given the current climate “we should do both. We should invest more in European industry. But we should also cooperate with our outside partners like the UK”.
She added that the EU hasn’t had discussions in terms of percentage, because the fund is “down to the capabilities”.
“That is, I think, more important than numbers,” she said.
The UK government has said accessing SAFE will support thousands of British jobs.
Defence was one of the many areas that has been agreed as part of the new UK and the EU trade deal struck by Sir Keir Starmer – five years after Brexit kicked in.
A key part of the deal involves giving European fishing boats a further 12 years of access to British waters.
In return, there will be increased access to EU eGates for British passport holders in Europe, no health certificates every time pets travel to Europe and the removal of red tape from most UK food and drink imports and exports.
UK
‘I recognise the error and upset caused’ – Gary Lineker releases statement as BBC departure confirmed
Gary Lineker has confirmed reports he is leaving the BBC after this season’s Match Of The Day and will no longer present its World Cup coverage.
It comes after the 64-year-old “apologised unreservedly” for sharing a social media post illustrated with a rat – which has been used to represent Jewish people in antisemitic propaganda, including Nazi Germany.
In a statement on Monday, Lineker said: “Football has been at the heart of my life for as long as I can remember – both on the pitch and in the studio.
Read more: A history of Gary Lineker’s most controversial posts
“I care deeply about the game, and about the work I’ve done with the BBC over many years. As I’ve said, I would never consciously repost anything antisemitic – it goes against everything I stand for.
“However, I recognise the error and upset that I caused, and reiterate how sorry I am. Stepping back now feels like the responsible course of action.”
Lineker has fronted Match Of The Day since 1999. PA
Lineker said he deleted the post when he learned about the rat’s symbolism, adding that he would “never knowingly share anything antisemitic”.
In a video posted to Instagram, the pundit added: “I’ve stood up for minorities and humanitarian issues and against all forms of racism all of my life, including, of course, antisemitism, which I absolutely abhor.
“There’s no place for it and never should be.”
He went on to thank the “brilliant, talented” people he has worked with and described his relationship with the BBC as “long and wonderful”.
He added: “But it’s the right time for the organisation and myself to go our separate ways.”
Lineker’s last appearance on the BBC will be on Sunday 25 May, the final day of the season.
‘A defining voice in football coverage’
Also confirming Lineker’s exit, BBC director general Tim Davie said: “Gary has acknowledged the mistake he made. Accordingly, we have agreed he will step back from further presenting after this season.
“Gary has been a defining voice in football coverage for the BBC for over two decades. His passion and knowledge have shaped our sports journalism and earned him the respect of sports fans across the UK and beyond.
“We want to thank him for the contribution he has made.”
Kelly Cates, Mark Chapman and Gabby Logan will share the role of presenting Match of the Day. Pic BBC/PA
The former England star announced in November he would step down from Match Of The Day this year, but was set to return to front the World Cup in 2026, as well as FA Cup coverage.
The presenter was temporarily suspended from the BBC in March 2023 after an impartiality row over comments he made criticising the then Conservative government’s asylum policy.
He will be replaced on Match Of The Day by Gabby Logan, Kelly Cates and Mark Chapman, who will share the presenting role from the next Premier League season.
Lineker has hosted Match Of The Day since 1999 and has been the BBC’s highest-paid on-air talent for seven consecutive years.
He is also the co-founder of podcast producing company Goalhanger, which makes the popular The Rest Is History series and its spin-offs about politics, football, entertainment and money.
Lineker parting ways with the BBC also includes the licensing deal for Goalhanger podcast titles on BBC Sounds which ends this year, the PA news agency reported.
A “significant amount of personal data” of people who applied to the Legal Aid Agency – including criminal records – was accessed and downloaded by hackers, the Ministry of Justice (MoJ) has said.
The group that carried out the cyber attack says it accessed 2.1 million pieces of data, but the MoJ has not verified that figure, it is understood.
The government became aware of the incident on 23 April, but realised on Friday it was more extensive than first thought.
An MoJ source put the breach down to the “neglect and mismanagement” of the previous government, saying vulnerabilities in the Legal Aid Agency systems have been known for many years.
The Legal Aid Agency (LAA), is an executive agency, sponsored by the MoJ, which is responsible for administering legal aid funding – around £2.3bn in 2023/24.
The data accessed affected those who applied for legal aid in the last 15 years, and may include contact details and addresses of legal aid applicants, their dates of birth, national insurance numbers, criminal history, employment status and financial data such as contribution amounts, debts and payments.
The MoJ has urged anyone who applied for legal aid since 2010 to update any passwords that could have been exposed, and be alert to unknown messages and phone calls.
The organisation’s digital services, which are used by legal aid providers to log their work and get paid, have been taken offline.
‘We needed to take radical action’
Legal Aid Agency chief executive Jane Harbottle has apologised for the breach and acknowledged the news would be “shocking and upsetting”.
“Since the discovery of the attack, my team has been working around the clock with the National Cyber Security Centre to bolster the security of our systems so we can safely continue the vital work of the agency,” she said.
“However, it has become clear that, to safeguard the service and its users, we needed to take radical action. That is why we’ve taken the decision to take the online service down,” she said.
Ms Harbottle said contingency plans are in place for those who need legal support and advice.
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Retail disruption to ‘last months’
The Law Society, an organisation representing solicitors across the UK, blamed the attack on Legal Aid’s “antiquated IT system”.
“The incident once again demonstrates the need for sustained investment to bring the LAA’s antiquated IT system up to date and ensure the public have continued trust in the justice system,” said a Law Society spokesperson.
The Ministry of Justice (MoJ) said it is working with the National Crime Agency and National Cyber Security Centre to investigate the data breach.
The National Crime Agency said it was aware of the incident and was working closely with the MoJ to “better understand the incident and support the department”.
It comes after retailers Co-op, Harrods and Marks & Spencer were hit by cyber attacks, although there is no suggestion that they are connected to the incident at the LAA.
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