Grayscale CEO says fees on its bitcoin ETF will drop over time after outflows hit $12 billion
Michael Sonnenshein, CEO, Grayscale Investments at the NYSE, April 18, 2022.
Source: NYSE
LONDON — The boss of digital asset management firm Grayscale, which manages the $26 billion exchange-traded fund GBTC, has said that fees on its flagship product will come down over time, after its outflows reached $12 billion.
Grayscale CEO Michael Sonnenshein said that the crypto fund manager expects to bring fees on its Grayscale Bitcoin Trust ETF down in the coming months, as the nascent crypto ETF market matures.
“I’ll happily confirm that, over time, as this market matures, the fees on GBTC will come down,” Sonnenshein told CNBC in an interview on Monday. The firm previously defended its costlier-than-market-average charges.
“We have seen this in countless other exposures, countless other markets, you name it, where typically when products are earlier in their lifecycle, when they’re new to be introduced, these [fees] tend to be higher. And, as those markets mature, and as those funds grow, those fees tend to come down, and we expect the same to be true of GBTC.”
GBTC has logged outflows of more than $12 billion since it was converted into an ETF in early January, according to data from crypto investment firm CoinShares, due in no small part to its higher-than-average fees.
CoinShares’ data shows that GBTC recorded its biggest single daily outflow on Monday, with withdrawals totalling $643 million.
“Of course, we anticipated having outflows,” Sonnenshein told CNBC. “Investors have been wanting to either take gains on their portfolio, or arbitragers coming out of the fund, or people unwinding positions that were part of bankruptcies through forced liquidation.”
Market commentators argue that the bankruptcy of crypto giant FTX has played a significant role in the selloff of GBTC. FTX was a major holder of GBTC before it filed for insolvency in November 2022, holding about 22 million shares as of Oct. 25.
The FTX bankruptcy estate reportedly offloaded the majority of its shares in Grayscale’s bitcoin ETF, according to January reporting from Bloomberg and CoinDesk.
“None of that came as a surprise, right,” Sonnenshein said, speaking about the outflows. “What we’ve seen is GBTC continue to trade liquidly with tight spreads, and across a very diversified shareholder base. So we kind of think we’re between the first and the second inning of this.”
“We’re kind of at the end of that first inning now, where the pent-up demand for buying has hopefully been satisfied, the pent up demand for selling has also hopefully been satisfied,” Sonnenshein added.
“And now we’re kind of starting to move towards that second and third inning, where there’s so much more of the market that still is not yet accessing these products.”
The crypto fund manager charges a 1.5% management fee for GBTC holders, significantly higher than the charge commanded by many ETF providers, including BlackRock and Fidelity.
Vanguard has waived fees for investors entirely until March 2025 in a bid to lure in deposits.
Grayscale’s Sonnenshein defended the firm’s high fees at the time, telling CNBC they were justified by GBTC’s liquidity and track record. He said that the reason other ETFs have lower fees is that their products “don’t have a track record,” and the issuers are trying to lure investors with fee incentives.
Sonnenshein said the reason other ETFs have lower fees is that the products “don’t have a track record” and the issuers are trying to attract investors with fee incentives. “I think from our standpoint, it may at times call into question their long-term commitment to the asset class,” he said.
Sonnenshein told CNBC Monday that “all of these new issuers really came into the market to compete with us” and are also rivaling each other.
Grayscale also wants to introduce other ways of giving investors less costly ways of accessing its bitcoin ETF, including a “mini” version of its flagship product — the Grayscale Bitcoin Mini Trust, announced last week. The new ETF is set to trade under the ticker “BTC” and have a materially lower fee than GBTC.
The new BTC ETF would be effectively spun out of the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust ETF and seeded with an as-yet undisclosed portion of bitcoin underlying GBTC shares.
Under this structure, existing holders of GBTC would be able to benefit from a lower total blended fee while maintaining the same exposure to bitcoin, spanning ownership of shares of both GBTC and BTC.
Existing GBTC shareholders would also be able to convert into BTC without paying capital gains tax.
The firm is currently awaiting approval from the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission for its Bitcoin Mini Trust ETF.
Moving forward, Sonnenshein wants investors to turn their attention toward the business’ other crypto investment products, which track prices of different cryptocurrencies including ether and solana.
The company is trying to have its Grayscale Ethereum Trust converted into an ETF, but is awaiting SEC approval.
Matt Garman, CEO of Amazon Web Services, speaks during The Wall Street Journal’s Tech Live conference in Laguna Beach, California, on Oct. 21, 2024.
Frederic J. Brown | AFP | Getty Images
Amazon said revenue in its cloud unit increased 19% in the third quarter, just missing analyst estimates.
Revenue at Amazon Web Services totaled $27.45 billion, according to a statement Thursday, while Wall Street was expecting $27.52 billion, based on StreetAccount estimates. Year-over-year growth has accelerated for five consecutive quarters.
The artificial intelligence portion of AWS is in the billions of dollars in annualized revenue, more than doubling year over year, Amazon CEO Andy Jassy, who previously led AWS, said on a call with analysts.
“I believe we have more demand than we could fulfill if we had even more capacity today,” Jassy said. “I think pretty much everyone today has less capacity than they have demand for, and it’s really primarily chips that are the area where companies could use more supply.”
AWS leads the cloud infrastructure market over Google and Microsoft and is an important source of profit for Amazon.
On Tuesday, Google parent Alphabet said revenue from Google Cloud, which includes cloud applications as well as infrastructure, totaled $11.35 billion, up 35%. Microsoft said Wednesday that revenue from Azure and other cloud services grew 33%.
AWS recorded $10.45 billion in operating income, representing 60% of its parent’s profit. Analysts expected $9.15 billion.
The unit’s operating margin came in at 38%, the widest for AWS since at least 2014. Google Cloud reported an operating margin of 17%.
“We’re being very measured in our hiring,” Brian Olsavsky, Amazon’s finance chief, said on the call.
During the quarter, Oracle said it will bring database services to AWS.
“If this is successful, we would love to find more pieces of their application stack that could run well in AWS and help customers do that,” AWS CEO Matt Garman told CNBC in a September interview.
Also in the quarter, AWS announced plans to discontinue some services, including code-repository tool CodeCommit. Garman told TechCrunch that AWS “can’t invest in everything.”
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Dominika Zarzycka | Nurphoto | Getty Images
Amazon’s online advertising business brought in $14.3 billion in the third quarter, up 19% year over year, in line with analysts’ estimates of $14.3 billion.
The Seattle tech giant revealed the financial results of its growing advertising unit as part of its latest earnings report Thursday. Amazon’s overall third-quarter sales were $158.9 billion, ahead of analysts’ estimates of $157.2 billion.
Amazon’s online advertising business is still a fraction of the company’s overall business, but its growth over the years has made it a major competitor to Alphabet and Meta, which lead the digital advertising market. Alphabet’s Google currently represents 27.7% of the worldwide digital advertising market, followed by Meta at 22.8% and Amazon with 8.8%, according to data provided to CNBC by Emarketer.
Meta’s third-quarter advertising revenue came in at $39.9 billion, which was up 19% compared with the year prior. That was slightly ahead of analysts’ expectations of $39.49 billion, according to StreetAccount. Ads accounted for 98.3% of Meta’s overall third-quarter revenue.
Alphabet generated $65.85 billion in third-quarter ad revenue, the company reported Tuesday. That was up 10% from $59.65 billion the year prior. Additionally, advertising sales for the company’s YouTube unit rose 12% year over year to $8.92 billion.
Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger holds an artificial intelligence processor as he speaks during the Computex conference in Taipei, Taiwan, on June 4, 2024.
Annabelle Chih | Bloomberg | Getty Images
Intel shares rose 9% in extended trading on Thursday after the chipmaker reported better-than-expected revenue and issued quarterly guidance that topped estimates.
Here’s how the company did in comparison with LSEG consensus:
- Earnings per share: Loss of 46 cents adjusted
- Revenue: $13.28 billion vs. $13.02 billion expected
Intel’s revenue declined 6% year over year in the quarter, which ended on Sept. 28, according to a statement. The company registered a net loss of $16.99 billion, or $3.88 per share, compared with net earnings of $310 million, or 7 cents per share, in the same quarter a year ago.
As part of its cost reduction plan, Intel recognized $2.8 billion in restructuring charges during the quarter. There were also $15.9 billion in impairment charges.
Intel has been mired in an extended slump due to market share losses in its core businesses and an inability to crack artificial intelligence. CEO Pat Gelsinger revealed plans during the quarter to turn the company’s foundry business into an independent subsidiary, a move that would enable outside funding options.
CNBC reported that Intel had engaged advisors to defend itself against activist investors. In late September, news surfaced that Qualcomm reached out to Intel about a possible takeover.
The Client Computing Group that sells PC chips recorded $7.33 billion in revenue, down about 7% from a year earlier and below the $7.39 billion consensus among analysts surveyed by StreetAccount.
Revenue from the Data Center and AI segment came to $3.35 billion, which was up about 9% and more than the $3.17 billion consensus from StreetAccount.
Intel called for fiscal third-quarter adjusted earnings of 12 cents per share and revenue between $13.3 billion and $14.3 billion. Analysts had expected 8 cents in adjusted earnings per share and $13.66 billion in revenue.
During the quarter, Intel announced the launch of Xeon 6 server processors and Gaudi artificial intelligence accelerators.
As of Thursday’s close, Intel shares were down about 57% in 2024, while the S&P 500 index had gained 20%.
Executives will discuss the results with analysts on a conference call starting at 5 p.m. ET.
This is breaking news. Please check back for updates.
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