Horizon IT scandal: Post Office officials knew of instruction for Fujitsu to remotely change sub-postmaster accounts 10 years ago, leaked recordings suggest
The Post Office’s IT helpdesk was instructing Fujitsu, the maker of faulty accounting software, to change sub-postmaster accounts more than a decade ago, according to leaked recordings.
Two secret audio recordings with Post Office officials, obtained by Sky News, demonstrate how much the government-owned company knew about flaws with the Horizon IT programme, used by sub-postmasters to record branch transactions.
Hundreds were prosecuted for theft and false accounting and many more borrowed large amounts, lost homes, and moved from their areas after incorrect shortfalls were generated by Horizon.
Forensic accountants Second Sight was examining issues with Horizon in 2013, two years before the Post Office stopped using the software data to prosecute sub-postmasters.
‘Fujitsu tells Post Office: We will change the balances’
Those forensic accountants uncovered emails from the Post Office to Fujitsu, they said in leaked calls in May 2013.
Ian Henderson of Second Sight said: “What we’re seeing from the emails is [Fujitsu] were getting instructions, in effect, directly from the helpdesk saying, ‘Look, we need this fixed. You know, can you work your magic?’ and the responses are going back, ‘Yeah, it will be done in the overnight run tonight. We will change the balances or whatever’.”
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On that call were the Post Office’s chief lawyer Susan Crichton and company secretary Alwen Lyons, as well as another Second Sight forensic accountant Ron Warmington.
Specific dates, times and places Fujitsu made ‘corrections’
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At that time, Second Sight had already found specific dates, times, and branches where Fujitsu made “corrections” or “adjustments” to sub-postmaster accounts, Mr Henderson told a Post Office IT staff member on a separate tape.
“We have identified some very specific dates and times and, indeed, branches where this capability [to alter accounts] is alleged to have been used,” he said.
Concerns over an alleged Post Office testing facility at Fujitsu were raised by Post Office chief lawyer Susan Crichton in her recorded conversation with Second Sight. “Maybe, you know, it is the case that that exists,” she said.
Mr Henderson of Second Sight wanted the focus to remain on the Post Office.
“Well, remember it was [Post Office Limited] employees. They just happened to be located in a Fujitsu building. I don’t think we can sort of pass the blame on to Fujitsu,” he said.
A ‘difficult few years’ ahead
Fujitsu was being updated on Second Sight’s findings and was “getting nervous about the whole thing”, Mr Henderson said. “I am picking up some vibes along those lines.”
Ms Crichton said in response that this information should be included in an email from Second Sight to Post Office officials.
She was bracing for a tough time with Fujitsu. “We have got a difficult few years with them, I think.”
Post Office delays that slowed the investigation
Second Sight was already facing difficulties in its investigation due, in part, to delays at the Post Office.
Some Horizon data was “thin on the ground”, Second Sight forensic accountant Ron Warmington said, which meant it couldn’t complete inquiries into instances where sub-postmasters said Horizon didn’t work properly.
Mr Warmington said: “We have documented what the sub-postmaster says – asserts, and validated as best we can without looking at the Horizon data, and submitted it, but that we haven’t yet got a response from Post Office Limited and/or we haven’t got the underlying data yet to validate or refute the assertion.”
Replies from the Post Office sometimes took six weeks, Mr Henderson of Second Sight told Post Office chief lawyer Ms Crichton.
“Also, frankly, we could be a lot more aggressive in terms of bringing to your attention delays in the system when we’ve bashed something out and it takes six weeks for a substantive reply to come back.”
“Yeah, you need to be shouting to me,” Ms Crichton said.
Second Sight’s contract was eventually terminated by the Post Office in 2015 before their work could be completed.
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4:02
Fresh questions for Post Office
New pressure on Paula Vennells
The tapes also show the extent of Paula Vennells, the Post Office’s former chief executive’s knowledge of Horizon’s failings, six years before the organisation acknowledged wrongdoing in 2019 and apologised as part of sub-postmaster victims’ successful High Court challenge.
Officials said on the tapes they were updating Ms Vennells. “The way that I’ve tried to brief Paula is as soon as I have evidence that, you know, there is a problem she knows about it the next minute”, company secretary Alwen Lyons said.
Image: Paula Vennells in 2018. Pic: Rex
Two years on from the date of the tape calls, Ms Vennells told the MPs of the Business and Trade Committee that remote access to Horizon was not possible. Such denials were used in the court case against sub-postmasters.
Today that committee said all options are on the table, including holding Ms Vennells in contempt of parliament.
“We are deeply concerned by the latest revelations regarding the Post Office and will be exploring options for penalising the leadership that presided over the scandal,” Business and Trade Committee Liam Byrne said.
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In response to Sky News’s reporting, Ms Vennells said: “I continue to support and focus on co-operating with the inquiry and expect to be giving evidence in the coming months.
“I am truly sorry for the devastation caused to the sub-postmasters and their families, whose lives were torn apart by being wrongly accused and wrongly prosecuted as a result of the Horizon system.
“I now intend to continue to focus on assisting the inquiry and will not make any further public comment until it has concluded.”
A Post Office spokesperson said: “We remain fully focused on getting to the truth of what happened and supporting the statutory Public Inquiry, which is chaired by a judge with the power to question witnesses under oath, and is therefore best placed to achieve this.”
Fujitsu said it does not wish to comment.
Alwen Lyons and Susan Crichton did not respond to requests for comment.
Additional reporting by Emily Jennings, business producer.
A leading financier and Conservative Party donor is among the contenders vying to chair Channel 4, the state-owned broadcaster.
Sky News has learnt from Whitehall sources that Wol Kolade has been shortlisted to replace Sir Ian Cheshire at the helm of the company.
Mr Kolade, who has donated hundreds of thousands of pounds to Tory coffers, is said by Whitehall insiders to be one of a handful of remaining candidates for the role.
A recommendation from Ofcom, the media regulator, to Culture Secretary Lisa Nandy about its recommendation for the Channel 4 chairmanship is understood to be imminent.
Mr Kolade, who heads the private equity firm Livingbridge, has held non-executive roles including a seat on the board of NHS Improvement.
He declined to comment when contacted by Sky News on Monday.
His candidacy pits him against rivals including Justin King, the former J Sainsbury chief executive, who last week stepped down as chairman of Ovo Energy.
Debbie Wosskow, an existing Channel 4 non-executive director who has applied for the chair role, is also said by government sources to have made it to the shortlist.
Sir Ian stepped down earlier this year after just one term, having presided over a successful attempt to thwart privatisation by the last Tory government.
The Channel 4 chairmanship is currently held on an interim basis by Dawn Airey, the media industry executive who has occupied top jobs at companies including ITV, Channel 5, and Yahoo!.
The race to lead the state-owned broadcaster’s board has acquired additional importance since the resignation of Alex Mahon, its long-serving chief executive.
It has since been reported that Alex Burford, another Channel 4 non-executive director and the boss of Warner Records UK, was interested in replacing Ms Mahon.
Ms Mahon, who was a vocal opponent of Channel 4’s privatisation, is leaving to join Superstruct, a private equity-owned live entertainment company.
The appointment of a new chair is expected to take place by the autumn, with the chosen candidate expected to lead the recruitment of Ms Mahon’s successor.
The Department for Culture, Media and Sport declined to comment on the recruitment process.
The owner of Brentford Football Club has clinched a deal to sell a minority stake in the Premier League side to new investors at a valuation of roughly £400m.
Sky News has learnt that an agreement that will involve current owner Matthew Benham offloading a chunk of his holding to Gary Lubner – the wealthy businessman who ran Autoglass-owner Belron – is expected to be announced as early as Tuesday.
Matthew Vaughn, the Hollywood film-maker whose credits include Layer Cake and Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, is also expected to invest in Brentford as part of the deal, The Athletic reported last month.
Further details of the transaction were unclear on Monday night, although one insider speculated that it could ultimately see as much as 25% of the club changing hands.
If confirmed, it would underline the continuing interest from wealthy investors in top-flight English clubs.
FA Cup winners Crystal Palace have seen a minority stake being bought by Woody Johnson, the New York Jets-owner, in the last few weeks, with that deal hastened by the implications of former shareholder John Textor’s simultaneous ownership of a stake in French club Lyon.
Sky News revealed in February 2024 that Mr Benham had hired bankers at Rothschild to market a stake in Brentford.
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Under Mr Benham’s stewardship, it has enjoyed one of the most successful transformations in English football, rising from the lower divisions to the top division in 2021.
It has also moved from its long-standing Griffin Park home to a new stadium near Kew Bridge.
This summer is proving to be one of transition, with manager Thomas Frank joining Tottenham Hotspur and striker Bryan Mbeumo the subject of persistent interest from Manchester United.
Brentford did not respond to a request for comment on Monday night, while a spokesman for Mr Lubner declined to comment.
Talk to economists and they will tell you that the cost of living crisis is over.
They will point towards charts showing that while inflation is still above the Bank of England’s 2% target, it has come down considerably in recent years, and is now “only” hovering between 3% and 4%.
So why does the cost of living still feel like such a pressing issue for so many households? The short answer is because, depending on how you define it, it never ended.
Economists like to focus on the change in prices over the past year, and certainly on that measure inflation is down sharply, from double-digit levels in recent years.
But if you look over the past four years then the rate of change is at its highest since the early 1990s.
But even that understates the complexity of economic circumstances facing households around the country.
For if you want a sense of how current financial conditions really feel in people’s pockets, you really ought to offset inflation against wages, and then also take account of the impact of taxes.
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That is a complex exercise – in part because no two households’ experience is alike.
But recent research from the Resolution Foundation illustrates some of the dynamics going on beneath the surface, and underlines that for many households the cost of living crisis is still very real indeed.
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2:32
UK inflation slows to 3.4%
The place to begin here is to recall that perhaps the best measure of economic “feelgood factor” is to subtract inflation and taxes from people’s nominal pay.
You end up with a statistic showing your real household disposable income.
Consider the projected pattern over the coming years. For a household earning £50,000, earnings are expected to increase by 10% between 2024/25 and 2027/28.
Subtract inflation projected over that period and all of a sudden that 10% drops to 2.5%.
Now subtract the real increase in payments of National Insurance and taxes and it’s down to 0.2%.
Now subtract projected council tax increases and all of a sudden what began as a 10% increase is actually a 0.1% decrease.
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Will we see tax rises in next budget?
Of course, the degree of change in your circumstances can differ depending on all sorts of factors. Some earners (especially those close to tax thresholds, which in this case includes those on £50,000) feel the impact of tax changes more than others.
Pensioners and those who own their homes outright benefit from a comparatively lower increase in housing costs in the coming years than those paying mortgages and (especially) rent.
Nor is everyone’s experience of inflation the same. In general, lower-income households pay considerably more of their earnings on essentials, like housing costs, food and energy. Some of those costs are going up rapidly – indeed, the UK faces higher power costs than any other developed economy.
But the ultimate verdict provides some clear patterns. Pensioners can expect further increases in their take-home pay in the coming years. Those who own their homes outright and with mortgages can likely expect earnings to outpace extra costs. But others are less fortunate. Those who rent their homes privately are projected to see sharp falls in their household income – and children are likely to see further falls in their economic welfare too.