Horizon IT scandal: Post Office officials knew of instruction for Fujitsu to remotely change sub-postmaster accounts 10 years ago, leaked recordings suggest
The Post Office’s IT helpdesk was instructing Fujitsu, the maker of faulty accounting software, to change sub-postmaster accounts more than a decade ago, according to leaked recordings.
Two secret audio recordings with Post Office officials, obtained by Sky News, demonstrate how much the government-owned company knew about flaws with the Horizon IT programme, used by sub-postmasters to record branch transactions.
Hundreds were prosecuted for theft and false accounting and many more borrowed large amounts, lost homes, and moved from their areas after incorrect shortfalls were generated by Horizon.
Forensic accountants Second Sight was examining issues with Horizon in 2013, two years before the Post Office stopped using the software data to prosecute sub-postmasters.
‘Fujitsu tells Post Office: We will change the balances’
Those forensic accountants uncovered emails from the Post Office to Fujitsu, they said in leaked calls in May 2013.
Ian Henderson of Second Sight said: “What we’re seeing from the emails is [Fujitsu] were getting instructions, in effect, directly from the helpdesk saying, ‘Look, we need this fixed. You know, can you work your magic?’ and the responses are going back, ‘Yeah, it will be done in the overnight run tonight. We will change the balances or whatever’.”
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On that call were the Post Office’s chief lawyer Susan Crichton and company secretary Alwen Lyons, as well as another Second Sight forensic accountant Ron Warmington.
Specific dates, times and places Fujitsu made ‘corrections’
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At that time, Second Sight had already found specific dates, times, and branches where Fujitsu made “corrections” or “adjustments” to sub-postmaster accounts, Mr Henderson told a Post Office IT staff member on a separate tape.
“We have identified some very specific dates and times and, indeed, branches where this capability [to alter accounts] is alleged to have been used,” he said.
Concerns over an alleged Post Office testing facility at Fujitsu were raised by Post Office chief lawyer Susan Crichton in her recorded conversation with Second Sight. “Maybe, you know, it is the case that that exists,” she said.
Mr Henderson of Second Sight wanted the focus to remain on the Post Office.
“Well, remember it was [Post Office Limited] employees. They just happened to be located in a Fujitsu building. I don’t think we can sort of pass the blame on to Fujitsu,” he said.
A ‘difficult few years’ ahead
Fujitsu was being updated on Second Sight’s findings and was “getting nervous about the whole thing”, Mr Henderson said. “I am picking up some vibes along those lines.”
Ms Crichton said in response that this information should be included in an email from Second Sight to Post Office officials.
She was bracing for a tough time with Fujitsu. “We have got a difficult few years with them, I think.”
Post Office delays that slowed the investigation
Second Sight was already facing difficulties in its investigation due, in part, to delays at the Post Office.
Some Horizon data was “thin on the ground”, Second Sight forensic accountant Ron Warmington said, which meant it couldn’t complete inquiries into instances where sub-postmasters said Horizon didn’t work properly.
Mr Warmington said: “We have documented what the sub-postmaster says – asserts, and validated as best we can without looking at the Horizon data, and submitted it, but that we haven’t yet got a response from Post Office Limited and/or we haven’t got the underlying data yet to validate or refute the assertion.”
Replies from the Post Office sometimes took six weeks, Mr Henderson of Second Sight told Post Office chief lawyer Ms Crichton.
“Also, frankly, we could be a lot more aggressive in terms of bringing to your attention delays in the system when we’ve bashed something out and it takes six weeks for a substantive reply to come back.”
“Yeah, you need to be shouting to me,” Ms Crichton said.
Second Sight’s contract was eventually terminated by the Post Office in 2015 before their work could be completed.
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Fresh questions for Post Office
New pressure on Paula Vennells
The tapes also show the extent of Paula Vennells, the Post Office’s former chief executive’s knowledge of Horizon’s failings, six years before the organisation acknowledged wrongdoing in 2019 and apologised as part of sub-postmaster victims’ successful High Court challenge.
Officials said on the tapes they were updating Ms Vennells. “The way that I’ve tried to brief Paula is as soon as I have evidence that, you know, there is a problem she knows about it the next minute”, company secretary Alwen Lyons said.
Image: Paula Vennells in 2018. Pic: Rex
Two years on from the date of the tape calls, Ms Vennells told the MPs of the Business and Trade Committee that remote access to Horizon was not possible. Such denials were used in the court case against sub-postmasters.
Today that committee said all options are on the table, including holding Ms Vennells in contempt of parliament.
“We are deeply concerned by the latest revelations regarding the Post Office and will be exploring options for penalising the leadership that presided over the scandal,” Business and Trade Committee Liam Byrne said.
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In response to Sky News’s reporting, Ms Vennells said: “I continue to support and focus on co-operating with the inquiry and expect to be giving evidence in the coming months.
“I am truly sorry for the devastation caused to the sub-postmasters and their families, whose lives were torn apart by being wrongly accused and wrongly prosecuted as a result of the Horizon system.
“I now intend to continue to focus on assisting the inquiry and will not make any further public comment until it has concluded.”
A Post Office spokesperson said: “We remain fully focused on getting to the truth of what happened and supporting the statutory Public Inquiry, which is chaired by a judge with the power to question witnesses under oath, and is therefore best placed to achieve this.”
Fujitsu said it does not wish to comment.
Alwen Lyons and Susan Crichton did not respond to requests for comment.
Additional reporting by Emily Jennings, business producer.
The taxpayer is to help drive the switch to non-polluting vehicles through a new grant of up to £3,750, but some of the cheapest electric cars are to be excluded.
The Department for Transport (DfT) said a £650m fund was being made available for the Electric Car Grant, which is due to get into gear from Wednesday.
Users of the scheme – the first of its kind since the last Conservative government scrapped grants for new electric vehicles three years ago – will be able to secure discounts based on the “sustainability” of the car.
It will apply only to vehicles with a list price of £37,000 or below – with only the greenest models eligible for the highest grant.
Buyers of so-called ‘Band two’ vehicles can receive up to £1,500.
The qualification criteria includes a recognition of a vehicle’s carbon footprint from manufacture to showroom so UK-produced EVs, costing less than £37,000, would be expected to qualify for the top grant.
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It is understood that Chinese-produced EVs – often the cheapest in the market – would not.
Image: BYD electric vehicles before being loaded onto a ship in Lianyungang, China. Pic: Reuters
DfT said 33 new electric car models were currently available for less than £30,000.
The government has been encouraged to act as sales of new electric vehicles are struggling to keep pace with what is needed to meet emissions targets.
Challenges include the high prices for electric cars when compared to conventionally powered models.
At the same time, consumer and business budgets have been squeezed since the 2022 cost of living crisis – and households and businesses are continuing to feel the pinch to this day.
Another key concern is the state of the public charging network.
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The Chinese electric car rivalling Tesla
Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander said: “This EV grant will not only allow people to keep more of their hard-earned money – it’ll help our automotive sector seize one of the biggest opportunities of the 21st century.
“And with over 82,000 public charge points now available across the UK, we’ve built the infrastructure families need to make the switch with confidence.”
The Government has pledged to ban the sale of new fully petrol or diesel cars and vans from 2030 but has allowed non-plug in hybrid sales to continue until 2025.
It is hoped the grants will enable the industry to meet and even exceed the current zero emission vehicle mandate.
Under the rules, at least 28% of new cars sold by each manufacturer in the UK this year must be zero emission.
The figure stood at 21.6% during the first half of the year.
The car industry has long complained that it has had to foot a multi-billion pound bill to woo buyers for electric cars through “unsustainable” discounting.
Mike Hawes, chief executive of the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, said the grants sent a “clear signal to consumers that now is the time to switch”.
He went on: “Rapid deployment and availability of this grant over the next few years will help provide the momentum that is essential to take the EV market from just one in four today, to four in five by the end of the decade.”
But the Conservatives questioned whether taxpayers should be footing the bill.
Shadow transport secretary Gareth Bacon said: “Last week, the Office for Budget Responsibility made clear the transition to EVs comes at a cost, and this scheme only adds to it.
“Make no mistake: more tax rises are coming in the autumn.”
A leading financier and Conservative Party donor is among the contenders vying to chair Channel 4, the state-owned broadcaster.
Sky News has learnt from Whitehall sources that Wol Kolade has been shortlisted to replace Sir Ian Cheshire at the helm of the company.
Mr Kolade, who has donated hundreds of thousands of pounds to Tory coffers, is said by Whitehall insiders to be one of a handful of remaining candidates for the role.
A recommendation from Ofcom, the media regulator, to Culture Secretary Lisa Nandy about its recommendation for the Channel 4 chairmanship is understood to be imminent.
Mr Kolade, who heads the private equity firm Livingbridge, has held non-executive roles including a seat on the board of NHS Improvement.
He declined to comment when contacted by Sky News on Monday.
His candidacy pits him against rivals including Justin King, the former J Sainsbury chief executive, who last week stepped down as chairman of Ovo Energy.
Debbie Wosskow, an existing Channel 4 non-executive director who has applied for the chair role, is also said by government sources to have made it to the shortlist.
Sir Ian stepped down earlier this year after just one term, having presided over a successful attempt to thwart privatisation by the last Tory government.
The Channel 4 chairmanship is currently held on an interim basis by Dawn Airey, the media industry executive who has occupied top jobs at companies including ITV, Channel 5, and Yahoo!.
The race to lead the state-owned broadcaster’s board has acquired additional importance since the resignation of Alex Mahon, its long-serving chief executive.
It has since been reported that Alex Burford, another Channel 4 non-executive director and the boss of Warner Records UK, was interested in replacing Ms Mahon.
Ms Mahon, who was a vocal opponent of Channel 4’s privatisation, is leaving to join Superstruct, a private equity-owned live entertainment company.
The appointment of a new chair is expected to take place by the autumn, with the chosen candidate expected to lead the recruitment of Ms Mahon’s successor.
The Department for Culture, Media and Sport declined to comment on the recruitment process.
The owner of Brentford Football Club has clinched a deal to sell a minority stake in the Premier League side to new investors at a valuation of roughly £400m.
Sky News has learnt that an agreement that will involve current owner Matthew Benham offloading a chunk of his holding to Gary Lubner – the wealthy businessman who ran Autoglass-owner Belron – is expected to be announced as early as Tuesday.
Matthew Vaughn, the Hollywood film-maker whose credits include Layer Cake and Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, is also expected to invest in Brentford as part of the deal, The Athletic reported last month.
Further details of the transaction were unclear on Monday night, although one insider speculated that it could ultimately see as much as 25% of the club changing hands.
If confirmed, it would underline the continuing interest from wealthy investors in top-flight English clubs.
FA Cup winners Crystal Palace have seen a minority stake being bought by Woody Johnson, the New York Jets-owner, in the last few weeks, with that deal hastened by the implications of former shareholder John Textor’s simultaneous ownership of a stake in French club Lyon.
Sky News revealed in February 2024 that Mr Benham had hired bankers at Rothschild to market a stake in Brentford.
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Under Mr Benham’s stewardship, it has enjoyed one of the most successful transformations in English football, rising from the lower divisions to the top division in 2021.
It has also moved from its long-standing Griffin Park home to a new stadium near Kew Bridge.
This summer is proving to be one of transition, with manager Thomas Frank joining Tottenham Hotspur and striker Bryan Mbeumo the subject of persistent interest from Manchester United.
Brentford did not respond to a request for comment on Monday night, while a spokesman for Mr Lubner declined to comment.