Post Office lawyer ‘takes no pride’ working for the company
A lawyer for the Post Office at the height of the Horizon IT scandal has told the public inquiry he feels “no pride” to be employed by the company.
Rodric Williams, a civil law specialist who joined the organisation in 2012, told the hearing he was “truly sorry” for being associated with the “greatest miscarriage of justice we’ve seen”.
A first day of evidence for the New Zealand national, now among three legal leads at the Post Office, saw Mr Williams admit a “bunker mentality” among staff in relation to the media’s coverage of the faulty Horizon IT system.
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In his second day, Mr Williams was pressed on what he knew about the Post Office’s ex-head of security John Scott allegedly shredding minutes from a meeting concerning Horizon bugs.
The inquiry heard the Post Office feared sub-postmasters who had been convicted of offences jumping on a “bandwagon” and challenging their convictions if damaging documents surfaced as part of the mediation process.
The word came as part of a 2013 meeting between the Post Office’s in-house and external lawyers, which read: “It was widely agreed that there was likely to be a ‘bandwagon’ approach in relation to defendants challenging their previous convictions.”
Mr Williams was also accused of knowing “perfectly well” that the Post Office had “relied on a liar and a perjurer to convict innocent people” following expert evidence provided by leading Horizon engineer Gareth Jenkins in the trial of sub-postmistress Seema Misra.
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She was suspended from her branch in 2008 and handed a 15-month prison sentence, while eight weeks pregnant, in November 2010 after being accused of stealing £74,000.
The inquiry heard how the Post Office received advice from external barrister Simon Clarke in 2013 suggesting an expert witness, Mr Jenkins, and the Post Office had “breached their duties” to the court, and subsequent advice suggested meeting minutes talking about Horizon bugs had been shredded.
Questioned on his views on the wrongful conviction of Mrs Misra, Mr Williams told the inquiry: “I take no pride, comfort or confidence in having worked for an employer that has engaged in conducting the greatest miscarriage of justice that we’ve seen, or however it has been described.
“I don’t know where to go with this – it’s awful that people with convictions had them, and had them for the length of time that they did.
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“And for my part in that, I’m truly sorry that I’ve been associated with this. I’m truly sorry for that.”
Chairman Sir Wyn Williams interjected: “I think the point, Mr Williams, is at a moment in time, namely 2014, when on any sensible reading of Mr Clarke’s advice from July 2013, there was a problem about Mr Jenkins’s evidence, the Post Office and you personally appeared to still be asserting to the world that the conviction was safe, amongst other things, because expert evidence had been called and the jury, by inference, must have accepted it.
“Those two things don’t sit very easily together, do they?”
Rodric Williams also gave evidence on Thursday. Pic: POHI
Mr Williams replied: “No, they don’t, sir. No, they don’t.”
Addressing the destruction of meeting minutes in advice given to the organisation, Mr Clarke had written: “An instruction was then given that those emails and minutes should be, and have been, destroyed: the word ‘shredded’ was conveyed to me.”
Counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC asked: “Presumably you were quite shocked to read it?”
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The Post Office lawyer replied: “Yes.”
Mr Beer later asked: “What steps did you take to ensure that it was investigated in any way whatsoever?”
After the witness said he did not recall, the counsel to the inquiry continued: “Is the answer none?”
Mr Williams replied: “I can’t remember what happened at that time 11 years ago – so what I felt needed to be done or should be done I can’t recall now.”
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Following an interjection by chairman Sir Wyn Williams urging him to answer the question, Mr Beer continued: “Should the serious or very serious matters raised in Mr Clarke’s advice have been investigated by the Post Office?”
The witness said: “Yes.”
Asked if consideration was given to reporting the matter to the police, Mr Williams said: “I don’t believe so, no.”
Mr Beer continued: “Would you have been concerned if you found out that it was said to be the head of security that had given an instruction to shred documents?”
Mr Williams replied: “Yes.”
Budget fears and unseasonably warm weather led to consumers spending far less than expected last month, according to official figures.
In a sign of a slowing economy, retail sales fell a sharp 0.7%, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said.
The fall was larger than expected. A drop of 0.3% was forecasted by economists polled by the Reuters news agency.
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Clothing stores were particularly affected, where sales fell by 3.1% over the month as October temperatures remained high, putting shoppers off winter purchases.
Retailers across the board, however, reported consumers held back on spending ahead of the budget, the ONS added.
Just a month earlier, in September, spending rose by 0.1%.
Despite the October fall, the ONS pointed out that the trend is for sales increases on a yearly and three-monthly basis and for them to be lower than before the COVID-19 pandemic.
Retail sales figures are significant as household consumption measured by the data is the largest expenditure across the UK economy.
The data can also help track how consumers feel about their financial position and the economy more broadly.
Another signal of a slowing economy was the latest growth figures which showed a smaller-than-expected GDP (gross domestic product) measurement.
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Also released on Friday was news of a rise in consumer confidence in the weeks following the budget and the US election.
Market research company GfK’s long-running consumer confidence index “jumped” in November, the company said, as people intended to make Black Friday purchases.
It noted that inflation has yet to be tamed with people still feeling acute cost-of-living pressures.
It will take time for the UK’s new government to deliver on its promise of change, it added.
A quirk in the figures
Economic research firm Pantheon Macro said the dates included in the ONS’s retail sales figures could have distorted the headline figure.
The half-term break, during which spending typically increases, was excluded from the monthly statistics as the cut-off point was 26 October.
With cold weather gripping the UK this week clothing sales are likely to rise as delayed winter clothing purchases are made, Pantheon added.
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