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2024 CNBC Disruptor 50: #31 Zum CEO on electrifying American school buses

The nightlife of school buses is about to get more interesting.

Zum, which provides student transportation including EV buses to 4,000 schools across the country, is partnering with the Oakland Unified School District to start selling power stored in EV batteries back to the California utility grid.

Oakland is the first school district in the U.S. to go fully electric with its buses, 74 in all, and will now be the first to test the concept of V2G (vehicle to grid) bidirectional charging. In effect, instead of the one-way charge into the vehicle, the school buses will be able to send their battery power back to the grid through Zum charging infrastructure.

Zum estimates that 2.1 gigawatt hours of energy can be sent from batteries back to the California grid annually. The company’s goal is to add 10,000 bidirectional EV school buses across the U.S. with 300 gigawatt hours of energy available to power grids each year. San Francisco Unified and Los Angeles Unified, much larger districts than Oakland, are expected to follow, Zum said. It also works with school districts in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Missouri, Nebraska, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, Utah, and Virginia.

Zum ranked No. 31 on the 2024 CNBC Disruptor 50 list

More coverage of the 2024 CNBC Disruptor 50

There have been pilots across the country to test school bus V2G business models, but Zum says the time has come to move beyond the test phase.

“We at Zum strongly believe it is time to move beyond pilots and deploy sustainability solutions at scale. Converting the Oakland Unified school bus fleet to 100% electric with VPP [virtual power plant] capability is the right step in that direction,” said Ritu Narayan, founder and CEO of Zum, in a release.

In a CNBC interview later on Wednesday, Narayan referred to the school bus as “the largest battery on wheels,” with four to six times the battery of a Tesla.

According to Zum, the 27 million students moved across the country to and from schools twice daily is the largest mass transit system in the country. The roughly 500,000 school buses are mostly diesel, contributing to emissions. Zum has the goal of being a net-zero transport provider.

Pacific Gas and Electric, which is based in Oakland, has partnered with Zum to enable its bidirectional charging station for EV buses in Oakland.

Zum EV school buses at a charging station.

Zum

The concept is considered a strong one given the fact that school buses are not in use during peak energy demand hours, for example, between 5 p.m. and 10 p.m. This allows the buses, and their owners, to execute an energy arbitrage trade: charging up for their core daily task of moving students when energy prices are lower, and feeding battery storage back onto the grid when utilities will pay more for it per kilowatt/hour. As owner of the buses in use in Oakland, Zum will be the one to receive revenue from the grid deal, but in other cases where school districts own the buses, they can generate revenue. In some cases, the revenue from power sales could be split.

Narayan told CNBC that the school bus is an “ideal asset to be electrified” due to the battery and its predictable local pattern of use outside of peak hours.

Ram Ambatipudi, senior vice president of business development at EV Connect, which provides EV charging solutions, said the school bus model is one of the most promising in the area of using EV battery storage in a bidirectional nature. He said one of the biggest challenges is getting utilities to set a predetermined rate schedule that will allow for the arbitrage play across power markets, generating the revenue opportunity for the battery owners.

“There aren’t a lot of established rate schedules,” Ambatipudi said. In addition, a lot has to go right to make the model work and is still being tested. “It’s been more of a pilot level because that interplay has to happen between the vehicle charging station hardware, and software management of the station, and the backfeeding into grid and having the economic benefit paid out by the utility. “Those market developments have yet to come,” he said.

EV school buses today are two to three times as expensive as traditional buses, and the V2G model of selling energy back to the grid is part of the economic plan to make the transport technology more cost-effective for owners over time — EV battery costs are also declining while their efficiency rises.

The idea is similar in some ways to how owners of rooftop solar systems have been able to feed power back onto the grid in some markets, but in recent years, there has been pushback against these “net metering” relationships, especially in California. With buses, though, there is one key difference: the buses are not in use during the most important times of the day for the grid to have more power, and the buses can recharge at off-peak demand hours. Many rooftop solar power owners were selling energy supply back onto the grid when it was less needed.

And the arbitrage economics make sense: bus owners charge the vehicles during the lowest-cost periods so they can allocate excess battery power to be sold back into the grid when it is at its highest economic value.

There are many applications to take stored power in EV batteries and use as a supply, such as Ford pitching its F-150 Lightning EV as a home backup power source for when the grid is down and saying that has shown a surprising level of consumer appeal. But the school bus model may be the most effective at the largest scale.

“The low-hanging fruit from what I’ve seen is the school bus model,” Ambatipudi said. It’s not just the cycle of dropping off kids during the morning and then remaining idle at a depot during the middle part of day, and then cycling again in the afternoon and early evening into idle state again. During summer months, the buses are largely idle. “Buses can be used as essentially arbitrage devices to charge when power is cheap and discharge when needed,” he said.

Pilot CEO Adam Wright on EV charging: We think demand is going to push through

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Middle Eastern funds are plowing billions of dollars into hottest AI start-ups

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Middle Eastern funds are plowing billions of dollars into hottest AI start-ups

Sovereign wealth funds out of the Middle East are emerging as key backers of Silicon Valley’s artificial intelligence darlings.

Oil-rich nations like Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Kuwait and Qatar have been looking to diversify their economies, and are turning to tech investments as a hedge. In the past year, funding for AI companies by Middle-Eastern sovereigns has increased fivefold, according to data from Pitchbook.

MGX, a new AI fund out of The United Arab Emirates, was among investors looking to get a slice of OpenAI’s latest fundraise this week, two sources told CNBC. The round is set to value OpenAI at $150 billion, said the people, who asked not to be named because the discussions are confidential.

Few venture funds have deep enough pockets to compete with the multibillion-dollar checks coming from the likes of Microsoft and Amazon. But these sovereign funds have no problem coming up with cash for AI deals. They invest on behalf of their governments, which have been helped by rising energy prices in recent years. The Gulf Cooperation Council, or GCC, countries’ total wealth is expected to rise from $2.7 trillion to $3.5 trillion by 2026, according to Goldman Sachs.

The Saudi Public Investment Fund, or PIF, has topped $925 billion, and has been on an investing spree as part of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman’s “Vision 2030” initiative. The PIF has investments in companies including Uber, while also spending heavily on the LIV golf league and professional soccer.

UAE’s Mubadala has $302 billion under management, and the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority has $1 trillion under management. Qatar Investment Authority has $475 billion, while Kuwait’s fund has topped $800 billion.

Earlier this week, Abu Dhabi-based MGX joined a partnership on AI infrastructure with BlackRock, Microsoft and Global Infrastructure Partners, aiming to raise as much as $100 billion for data centers and other infrastructure investments. MGX was launched as a dedicated AI fund in March, with Abu Dhabi’s Mubadala and AI firm G42 as founding partners.

UAE’s Mubadala has also invested in OpenAI rival Anthropic, and is among the most active venture investors, with eight AI deals in the past four years, according to Pitchbook. Anthropic ruled out taking money from the Saudis in its last funding round, citing national security, sources told CNBC. 

Saudi Arabia’s PIF is in talks to create a $40 billion partnership with U.S. venture capital firm Andreessen Horowitz. It also launched a dedicated AI fund called the Saudi Company for Artificial Intelligence, or SCAI.

Still, the kingdom’s human rights record remains an issue for some Western partners and start-ups. The most notable case in recent years was the alleged killing of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi in 2018, an event that triggered international backlash in the business community.

It’s not just the Middle East spraying money into the space. French sovereign fund Bpifrance has inked 161 AI and machine learning deals in the past four years, while Temasek out of Singapore has completed 47, according to Pitchbook. GIC, another Singapore-backed fund, has completed 24 deals.

The flood of cash has some Silicon Valley investors worried about a SoftBank effect, referring to Masayoshi Son’s Vision Fund. SoftBank notably backed Uber and WeWork, pushing the companies to sky-high, valuations before going public. WeWork spiraled into bankruptcy last year after being valued by SoftBank at $47 billion in 2019.

For the U.S., having sovereign wealth funds invest in American companies, and not in global adversaries like China, has been a geopolitical priority. Jared Cohen of Goldman Sachs Global Institute said there’s a disproportionate amount of capital coming from nations like Saudi Arabia and UAE, and a willingness to deploy it around the world. He described them as “geopolitical swing states.”

WATCH: OpenAI is the indisputable leader in AI supercycle

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Harris agrees to potential CNN debate with Trump on Oct. 23

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Harris agrees to potential CNN debate with Trump on Oct. 23

U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris, the Democratic presidential nominee, speaks at the Cobb Energy Performing Arts Centre in Atlanta on Sept. 20, 2024. Harris spoke about abortion and reproductive rights in Georgia as she continues to campaign against Republican presidential nominee, former U.S. President Donald Trump.

Joe Raedle | Getty Images News | Getty Images

Vice President Kamala Harris said on Saturday that she would be open to debating former President Donald Trump for a second time in October, ahead of the November U.S. presidential election.

Jen O’Malley Dillon, chair of Harris and vice presidential nominee Tim Walz’s campaign, said in a statement that Harris has accepted CNN’s invitation to a debate on Oct. 23. That would be less than two weeks before the election.

“I will gladly accept a second presidential debate on October 23. I hope @realDonaldTrump will join me,” Harris wrote in an X post.

It isn’t the first time the Harris camp has proposed another match. Shortly after Harris and Trump held a debate hosted by ABC News earlier this month, O’Malley Dillon said Harris was ready for round two against him. But as Harris was raising millions of dollars following the campaign, Trump declined to face her again.

In a post on the Trump Media & Technology Group’s social network, Truth Social, the Republican presidential nominee said there would be “no third debate.”

On Saturday, a Trump campaign spokesperson referred CNBC back to Trump’s Truth Social post about there being no third debate.

“She’s done one debate,” Trump said at a rally in Wilmington, North Carolina, on Saturday. “I’ve done two. It’s too late to do another. I’d love to, in many ways, but it’s too late. The voting is cast.”

The first 2024 debate for Trump was against the current president, Joe Biden. CNN ran the event in June. But Biden struggled on the debate stage. Democratic donors expressed concerns about Biden’s prospects, and Democratic members of Congress called on Biden to end his election bid. In August, Harris accepted the presidential nomination at the Democratic National Convention.

“Donald Trump should have no problem agreeing to this debate,” O’Malley Dillon wrote in her statement. “It is the same format and setup as the CNN debate he attended and said he won in June, when he praised CNN’s moderators, rules and ratings.”

— CNBC’s Rebecca Picciotto contributed to this report.

WATCH: Harris won the debate but didn’t move the needle on voter decisions, says Pimco’s Libby Cantrill

Harris won the debate but didn't move the needle on voter decisions, says Pimco's Libby Cantrill

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Intel’s wild week leaves Wall Street more uncertain than ever about chipmaker’s future

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Intel's wild week leaves Wall Street more uncertain than ever about chipmaker's future

Intel CEO Patrick Gelsinger speaks at the Intel Ocotillo Campus in Chandler, Arizona, on March 20, 2024. 

Brendan Smialowski | AFP | Getty Images

It was quite a week for Intel.

The chipmaker, which has lost over half its value this year and last month had its worst day on the market in 50 years after a disappointing earnings report, started the week on Monday by announcing that it’s separating its manufacturing division from the core business of designing and selling computer processors.

And late Friday, CNBC confirmed that Qualcomm has recently approached Intel about a takeover in what would be one of the biggest tech deals ever. It’s not clear if Intel has engaged in conversations with Qualcomm, and representatives from both companies declined to comment. The Wall Street Journal was first to report on the matter.

The stock rose 11% for the week, its best performance since November.

The rally provides little relief to CEO Pat Gelsinger, who has had a tough run since taking the helm in 2021. The 56-year-old company lost its long-held title of world’s biggest chipmaker and has gotten trounced in artificial intelligence chips by Nvidia, which is now valued at almost $3 trillion, or more than 30 times Intel’s market cap of just over $90 billion. Intel said in August that it’s cutting 15,000 jobs, or more than 15% of its workforce.

But Gelsinger is still calling the shots and, for now, he says Intel is pushing forward as an independent company with no plans to spin off the foundry. In a memo to employees on Monday, he said the two halves are “better together,” though the company is setting up a separate internal unit for the foundry, with its own board of directors and governance structure and the potential to raise outside capital.

Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger speaks while showing silicon wafers during an event called AI Everywhere in New York, Thursday, Dec. 14, 2023.

Seth Wenig | AP

For the company that put the silicon in Silicon Valley, the road to revival isn’t getting any smoother. By forging ahead as one company, Intel has to two clear two gigantic hurdles at once: Spend more than $100 billion through 2029 to build chip factories in four different states, while simultaneously gaining a foothold in the AI boom that’s defining the future of technology.

Intel expects to spend roughly $25 billion this year and $21.5 billion next year on its foundries in hopes that becoming a domestic manufacturer will convince U.S. chipmakers to onshore their production rather than relying on Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) and Samsung.

That prospect would be more palatable to Wall Street if Intel’s core business was at the top of its game. But while Intel still makes the majority of processors at the heart of PCs, laptops, and servers, it’s losing market share to Advanced Micro Devices and reporting revenue declines that threaten its cash flow.

‘Next phase of this foundry journey’

With challenges mounting, the board met last weekend to discuss the company’s strategy.

Monday’s announcement on the new governance structure for the foundry business served as an opening salvo meant to convince investor that serious changes are underway as the company prepares to launch its manufacturing process, called 18A, next year. Intel said it has seven products in development and that it landed a giant customer, announcing that Amazon would use its foundry to produce a networking chip.

“It was very important to say we’re moving to the next phase of this foundry journey,” Gelsinger told CNBC’s Jon Fortt in an interview. “As we move to this next phase, it’s much more about building efficiency into that and making sure that we have good shareholder return for those significant investments.”

Still, Gelsinger’s foundry bet will take years to pay off. Intel said in the memo that it didn’t expect meaningful sales from external customers until 2027. And the company will also pause its fabrication efforts in Poland and Germany “by approximately two years based on anticipated market demand,” while pulling back on its plans for its Malaysian factory. 

TSMC is the giant in the chip fab world, manufacturing for companies including Nvidia, Apple and Qualcomm. Its technology allows fabless companies — those that outsource manufacturing — to make more powerful and efficient chips than what’s currently possible at volume inside Intel’s factories. Even Intel uses TSMC for some of its high-end PC processors.

Intel hasn’t announced a significant traditional American semiconductor customer for its foundry, but Gelsinger said to stay tuned.

“Some customers are reluctant to give their names because of the competitive dynamics,” Gelsinger told Fortt. “But we’ve seen a large uptick in the amount of customer pipeline activity we have underway.”

Prior to the Amazon announcement, Microsoft said earlier this year it would use Intel Foundry to produce custom chips for its cloud services, an agreement that could be worth $15 billion to Intel. Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella said in February that it would use Intel to produce a chip, but didn’t provide details. Intel has also signed up MediaTek, which primarily makes lower-end chips for mobile phones.

U.S. President Joe Biden listens to Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger as he attends the groundbreaking of the new Intel semiconductor manufacturing facility in New Albany, Ohio, U.S., September 9, 2022.

Joshua Roberts | Reuters

Backed by the government

Intel’s biggest champion at the moment is the U.S. government, whish is pushing hard to secure U.S.-based chip supply and limit the country’s reliance on Taiwan.

Intel said this week that it received $3 billion to build chips for the military and intelligence agencies in a specialized facility called a “secure enclave.” The program is classified, so Intel didn’t share specifics. Gelsinger also recently met with Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo, who is loudly promoting Intel’s future role in chip production.

Earlier this year, Intel was awarded up to $8.5 billion in CHIPS Act funding from the Biden administration and could receive an additional $11 billion in loans from the legislation, which was passed in 2022. None of the funds have been distributed yet. 

“At the end of the day, I think what policymakers want is for there to be a thriving American semiconductor industry in America,” said Anthony Rapa, a partner at law firm Blank Rome who focuses on international trade.

For now, Intel’s biggest foundry customer is itself. The company started reporting the division’s finances this year. For the latest quarter, which ended in June, it had an operating loss of $2.8 billion on revenue of $4.3 billion. Only $77 million in revenue came from external customers.

Intel has a goal of $15 billion in external foundry revenue by 2030.

While this week’s announcement was viewed by some analysts as the first step to a sale or spinoff, Gelsinger said that it was partially intended to help win new customers that may be concerned about their intellectual property leaking out of the foundry and into Intel’s other business.

“Intel believes that this will provide external foundry customers/suppliers with clearer separation,” JPMorgan Chase analysts, who have the equivalent of a sell rating on the stock, wrote in a report. “We believe this could ultimately lead to a spin out of the business over the next few years.”

No matter what happens on that side of the house, Intel has to find a fix for its main business of Core PC chips and Xeon server chips.

Intel’s client computing group — the PC chip division — reported about a 25% drop in revenue from its peak in 2020 to last year. The data center division is down 40% over that stretch. Server chip volume decreased 37% in 2023, while the cost to produce a server product rose.

Intel has added AI bits to its processors as part of a push for new PC sales. But it still lacks a strong AI chip competitor to Nvidia’s GPUs, which are dominating the data center market. The Futurum Group’s Daniel Newman estimates that Intel’s Gaudi 3 AI accelerator only contributed about $500 million to the company’s sales over the last year, compared with Nvidia’s $47.5 billion in data center sales in its latest fiscal year.

Newman is asking the same question as many Intel investors about where the company goes from here.

“If you pull these two things apart, you go, ‘Well, what are they best at anymore? Do they have the best process? Do they have the best design?'” he said. “I think part of what made them strong was that they did it all.”

— CNBC’s Rohan Goswami contributed to this report

WATCH: CNBC’s full interview with Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger

Watch CNBC's full interview with Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger

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