Sir Keir Starmer has revealed the thing he fears the most about becoming prime minister is the impact it will have on his children.
Speaking to Beth Rigby during Sky News’ Battle For Number 10 in Grimsby, the Labour leader said it was “not the big decisions” he feared the most but the effect his job will have on his teenage children.
He said his children – a boy aged nearly 16 and a girl aged 13 – were at “difficult ages” and it would have been easier if they were younger or older.
Meanwhile, Rishi Sunak – who also underwent questioning by Rigby – defended his record in Number 10 after he was quizzed about “broken promises” he made in January 2023 when he became prime minister.
The prime minister was specifically asked about the tax burden, NHS waiting lists and immigration – which he admitted was “too high”.
He said he could understand people’s “frustrations” but argued the country has “been through two once-in-a-century shocks” – the first the COVID pandemic and the second Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
“I appreciate people want to see positive change, but you don’t get any change unless you’ve got a plan and you’re prepared to do bold things,” he argued.
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The prime minister also said he is “incredibly excited” for his daughters to do national service in response to a question from William, a student from Grimsby. “I think it will be transformative for our country”, he said.
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And on migration, he was challenged about how he thought Brexit voters (in Grimsby 70% opted to leave the EU) – felt upon learning that the total net migration figure for the last three years was 1.9 million people.
He admitted the numbers were “too high” but insisted he had begun to bring them down since becoming prime minister.
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Sunak grilled over migration record
Asked why anyone should believe what he says given that David Cameron and Theresa May both promised to slash migration, he said: “I completely understand people’s cynicism about this,” before adding that numbers were now down 10% and the number of visas issued this year was also down by a quarter.
‘The thing that keeps me up at night is my children’
Sir Keir, who the polls predict will be the country’s next prime minister, said he “relished” the chance he may be given to change the country but that he feared for his teenage children.
“These are really difficult ages,” he said. “My only fear really is the impact it’s going to have on them.”
He said the reason they had not appeared publicly or in a photo shoot with him was to protect them and to ensure they have their “own lives”.
“I don’t fear the big decisions, in fact, I relish the chance to change our country,” he told Rigby.
“My only fear… the only thing that keeps me up at night is worrying about my children.”
‘I want to do things differently’
Sir Keir, who spoke before Mr Sunak took to the stage, also sought to distinguish himself from previous Labour leaders by saying he did not want to reach for the “tax lever” to sort out the country’s finances.
He said his “central mission was to grow the economy” and that he wanted to “do things differently”.
Despite persistent questioning over his tax plans, Sir Keir said there would be “no need” to raise taxes on “working people” in the party’s manifesto that will be published on Thursday.
“I accept that previous Labour leaders have sort of pulled the tax lever every single time and driven up spending,” Sir Keir continued.
“The manifesto tomorrow will be a manifesto, a plan for wealth creation.
“Now, you might not hear a Labour leader say that very often, but for me, that is the most important thing.”
On whether there would be “tax rises of any kind” in the next parliament, Sir Keir repeated: “No tax rises in the plans in our manifesto, no tax rises for working people – that’s income tax, national insurance and VAT.”
Turning to the audience, Rigby interjected: “I’ll just decode that for you guys, because when a politician says ‘no plans’ – it does mean ‘I might’.”
After taking questions from Rigby, Sir Keir faced the audience who asked him about his plans to tackle child poverty, housing and the NHS.
He was also asked by one audience member whether he had changed since leading the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) to resemble a “political robot”.
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Starmer accused of being a ‘political robot’
After an awkward pause, Sir Keir replied: “I’ve had this constant theme in my life of trying to serve the public. That’s why I took the decision to go into politics.”
Mr Sunak also faced laughter and boos from the audience when challenged about the five pledges he made after he replaced Boris Johnson as prime minister.
He faced laughter when he said inflation “was always meant to come down over time” and the audience expressed frustration when he blamed the lack of progress on cutting NHS waiting lists – which currently stand at 7.54 million – on industrial action.
And asked if he could provide the audience with any personal information that “make them like you a bit more again”, he replied: “People seem to think I have a very kind of healthy lifestyle and I go to the gym and session about my fasting, but I actually have an appalling diet because I eat an enormous amount of sugar, and I’m very unhealthy in that regard.”
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Diane Gall’s husband, Martyn, had been out on a morning bike ride with his friends on their usual route one winter morning in November 2020 – when he was killed by a reckless driver.
Diane and her daughters had to wait almost three years for her husband’s case to be heard in court.
The case was postponed three times, often without warning.
“You just honestly lose faith in the system,” she says.
“You feel there’s a system there that should be there to help and protect victims, to be victims’ voices, but the constant delays really take their toll on individuals and us as a family.”
Image: Diane Gall
The first trial date in April 2022 was cancelled on the day and pushed four months later.
The day before the new date, the family were told it wasn’t going ahead due to the barristers’ strike.
It was moved to November 2022, then postponed again, before eventually being heard in June the following year.
“You’re building yourself up for all these dates, preparing yourself for what you’re going to hear, reliving everything that has happened, and it’s retraumatising,” says Diane.
Image: Diane Gall’s husband, Martyn
‘Radical’ reform needed
Diane’s wait for justice gives us an insight into what thousands of victims and their families are battling every day in a court system cracking under the weight of a record-high backlog.
There are 76,957 cases waiting to be heard in Crown Courts across England and Wales, as of the end of March 2025.
To relieve pressure on the system, an independent review by Sir Brian Leveson last month made a number of recommendations – including creating a new division of the Crown Court known as an intermediate court, made up of a judge and two magistrates, and allowing defendants to choose to be tried by judge alone.
He said only “radical” reform would have an impact.
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Will court reforms tackle backlog?
But according to exclusive data collected for Sky News by the Law Society, there is strong scepticism among the industry about some proposed plans.
Before the review was published, we asked 545 criminal lawyers about the idea of a new tier to the Crown Court – 60% of them told us a type of Intermediate Court was unlikely to reduce the backlog.
“It’s moving a problem from one place to another, like moving the deck chairs on the Titanic. It’s not going to do anything,” says Stuart Nolan, chair of the Law Society’s criminal law committee.
“I think the problem with it is lack of resources or lack of will to give the proper resources.
“You can say we need more staff, but they’re not just any staff, they are people with experience and training, and that doesn’t come quickly or cheap.”
Instead, the lawyers told us creating an additional court would harm the quality of justice.
Chloe Jay, senior partner at Shentons Solicitors, agrees the quality of justice will be impacted by a new court division that could sit without a jury for some offences.
She says: “The beauty of the Crown Court is that you have two separate bodies, one deciding the facts and one deciding law.
Image: Casey Jenkins, president of London Criminal Court Solicitors’ Association
“So the jury doesn’t hear the legal arguments about what evidence should be excluded, whether something should be considered as part of the trial, and that’s what really gives you that really good, sound quality of justice, because you haven’t got one person making all the decisions together.
“Potentially in an intermediate court, that is what will happen. The same three people will hear those legal arguments and make the finding of guilt or innocence.”
The most striking finding from the survey is that 73% of criminal lawyers surveyed are worried about offences no longer sitting in front of a jury.
Casey Jenkins, president of London Criminal Court Solicitors’ Association, says this could create unconscious bias.
“There’s a real risk that people from minority backgrounds are negatively impacted by having a trial by a judge and not a jury of their peers who may have the same or similar social background to them,” she says.
“A jury trial is protection against professional judicial decisions by the state. It’s a fundamental right that can be invoked.”
Instead of moving some offences to a new Crown Court tier, our survey suggests criminal lawyers would be more in favour of moving cases to the magistrates instead.
Under the Leveson proposals, trials for offences such as dangerous driving, possessing an offensive weapon and theft could be moved out of the Crown Courts.
‘Catastrophic consequences’
Richard Atkinson, president of the Law Society, says fixing the system will only work with fair funding.
“It’s as important as the NHS, it’s as important as the education system,” he says. “If it crumbles, there will be catastrophic consequences.”
Ms Jenkins agrees that for too long the system has been allowed to fail.
“Everyone deserves justice, this is just not the answer,” she says.
“It’s just the wrong solution to a problem that was caused by chronic, long-term under-investment in the criminal justice system, which is a vital public service.
“The only way to ensure that there’s timely and fair justice for everybody is to invest in all parts of the system from the bottom up: local services, probation, restorative justice, more funding for lawyers so we can give early advice, more funding for the police so that cases are better prepared.”
Government vows ‘bold and ambitious reform’
In response to Sky News’ findings, the minister for courts and legal services, Sarah Sackman KC MP, told Sky News: “We inherited a record and rising court backlog, leaving many victims facing unacceptable delays to see justice done.
“We’ve already boosted funding in our courts system, but the only way out of this crisis is bold and ambitious reform. That is why we are carefully considering Sir Brian’s bold recommendations for long-term change.
“I won’t hesitate to do whatever needs to be done for the benefit of victims.”
The driver that killed Diane’s husband was eventually convicted. She wants those making decisions about the court system to remember those impacted the most in every case.
Every victim and every family.
“You do just feel like a cog in a big wheel that’s out of your control,” she says. “Because you know justice delayed is justice denied.”