Public debt limiting next government’s ability to invest says Lloyds Banking Group’s Charlie Nunn

Published

1 year ago

June 27, 2024

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The chief executive of Lloyds Banking Group – the UK’s biggest lender – has warned whoever wins the general election that they will not be able to fuel growth by increasing government borrowing.

Charlie Nunn said the UK’s national debt had been forced higher in the last decade and a half due to “massive shocks” such as the global financial crisis, the pandemic, the war in Ukraine and also by some issues specific to the UK economy.

Limits on investment

And, speaking exclusively to Sky News, he said this would limit the next government’s ability to invest.

He said: “We have increased the government debt ratio for the UK. And…we should just accept the government can’t pay its way out of this next stage.

“The US in the last few years has gone up to a… 7.5% government [deficit] to GDP ratio. The US can do that because it’s growing at above 3%, but also it’s [the US dollar] the world’s reserve currency.

“We don’t have those options in the UK – but what we do need is a really clear plan and set of priorities for the UK. And then…we need to find the right way of getting the very material amount of private money, international and domestic, that is excited about investing in the UK to invest alongside government.

The biggest challenge

“I think we can create that positive momentum for investment in jobs and business growth. And then that will feed through into the economy. That has to be the unlock from these three or four very systemic shocks that the UK economy has experienced in the last 16 years.”

Mr Nunn, who has served on both Prime Minister Rishi Sunak’s business council and the British Infrastructure Council launched by the shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves, said this would be the biggest challenge for the next administration.

He added: “When you look at the next few years for the next government, the real issue is how are we going to get investment into the economy – and that investment isn’t going to come from the government. It’s going to have to be crowding in international foreign direct investment, leveraging the banking system to really support customers, investing in their businesses and creating jobs and employment in growth and then supporting other financial institutions and pools of capital like pension funds for that investment.

“So the real focus has to be how do we get some growth going and how do we bring in private money alongside the government to make that difference? And that’s what will give the best outcome for the country, but also the government’s own finances.”

‘Very high’ business sentiment

Mr Nunn, who said business sentiment was “actually very high” at present, said a clear government plan and set of priorities could unlock three things.

He went on: “The first is we need to get more private, both domestically and international investment into the UK to support growth, and that needs to come with some supply-side reforms.

The second is housing. Housing really is an important topic for the UK, from social housing all the way through affordable housing and in the broader housing market. We think you need a 10-year plan to unlock the housing investment that would be needed to really make a difference.

“And then the third thing that we think that could make a difference is focusing on long-term savings and investments, both building financial resilience for businesses and consumers in the UK, but also then how we use those savings, those savings pots, to invest back in the UK economy.

“We think there’s opportunity to do more.”

Investors looking for ‘stability and a plan’

Lloyds is the owner of Halifax, the UK’s biggest mortgage lender, as well as being the UK’s biggest current account provider and one of its biggest players in business banking and credit cards and owner of the life and pensions giant Scottish Widows.

Mr Nunn said that, as chief executive, he met many businesses and was clear what they wanted from the next government.

He went on: “I spend a lot of time with entrepreneurs across the UK, but also big international finance houses, whether they’re pension funds or institutions looking to invest in the UK. The first thing that’s consistent across them is they’re looking for stability and a plan.

“And I think that’s the first thing for a new government, which is to provide that stability and to provide thinking, in some of these areas around infrastructure and housing, which is 10 years thinking not shorter-term thinking. So that’s the first thing they’re looking for.

“The second big theme, which is really consistent, is there are some supply-side issues… which are getting in the way of businesses getting a return on their investments. And obviously, there’s been good discussion around planning around connectivity to the [electricity] grid, around skills. Those are the three topics that businesses always identify.

‘Two to four times longer to get a return on UK investment’

“And what does it mean for investors, whether it’s a business or international investor? Typically, they’ll tell you it takes two to four times longer to get a return on your investment in the UK than it does in other countries of the world. And that’s really where we need to focus.”

Interest rates

Mr Nunn, who in August will mark his third anniversary as chief executive of the black horse bank, said the interest rate cuts from the Bank of England expected later this year would be “beneficial” – but warned homeowners not to expect a return to the ultra-low interest rates seen for most of the last 16 years.

He added: “Of course, the short-term impact of interest rates is going to impact, first of all, the government on the cost of government debt. That will be important. And secondly, it’ll make the cost of borrowing for businesses short term more attractive…that’ll be important.

“In terms of the impact on the broader consumer in the UK, it’ll take longer to feed through. Around mortgages specifically, we’ve just come off a decade where mortgages have been in the 1.5-2.5% range.

“The expectations the market have is that interest rates probably won’t get below 3.5%. And that means mortgages, or the new normal for mortgages, will be in that 3.5-4.5% range, not 1.5-2.5%.

“So there is going to be a higher cost of borrowing in the economy, probably based on what we can see happening at the moment.

“But a reduction in rates will be good for the government’s own capacity to invest and will support the economy and it should be good for business.”

Bank of England proposals

Mr Nunn also questioned proposals for the Bank of England to pay no interest to banks on the reserves they have deposited at the Bank of England – a measure that Reform UK has claimed could raise £40bn that could be used to cut taxes.

The Lloyds chief executive said: “Obviously that will be a political decision and not one that we’ll get directly involved with. The statement from the governor of the Bank of England was an important one in this context…he wouldn’t support it because it would start to undermine monetary policy and specifically how…interest rates feed through into the economy, through the commercial banks, through organisations like Lloyds Banking Group.

“I think that’s a really important consideration. In terms of the quantum of impact, there are various estimates out there, but I think the quantum of impact that’s been talked about is significantly more than I think would be realistic. And so it will be a political choice.

But you really need to look at the integrity of what the Bank of England does and whether or not monetary policy works effectively in the economy.”

Growth through financial regulation

Mr Nunn also said there was an opportunity for a new government to boost the economy through financial regulation, building on the new objectives recently set for financial regulators by the current government, which obliged the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority to enable competitiveness and growth both for the banking sector and the UK economy as a whole.

Stressing he was not calling for a return to the looser regulation seen prior to the financial crisis, he added: “There are choices about how do we help customers take the right level of risk…how do businesses and entrepreneurs take the right level of risk and what can financial services do safely to support that?

“When I look at what the UK is doing relative to other countries, we haven’t had that as a really clear objective and I think there’s more we can do that can untap opportunities for businesses, for families in the UK, over the coming years.”

He said the US and Canada could be a good template for the UK in that respect.

Business

O2 arena lease snapped up by pensions giant Rothesay

Published

6 hours ago

August 10, 2025

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O2 arena lease snapped up by pensions giant Rothesay

The long-term lease to the O2, London’s best-known live entertainment venue, has been sold to Britain’s biggest pensions insurance specialist.

Sky News understands a deal was signed last week for Rothesay, the title sponsor of England’s home Test cricket matches, to acquire the landmark’s 999-year lease for about £90m.

The agreement, which is likely to be announced within days, comes more than two months after Sky News reported that Rothesay was the frontrunner to clinch a deal.

Rothesay has become one of Britain’s most successful specialist insurers, having been established in 2007.

It now protects the pensions of more than one million people in Britain and makes more than £300m in pension payouts every month.

The auction of the O2 lease kicked off several months ago, when Cambridge University’s wealthiest college, Trinity, instructed advisers to launch a sale process.

Trinity College, which ranks among Britain’s biggest landowners, acquired the site in 2009 for a reported £24m.

The O2, which shrugged off its ‘white elephant’ status in the aftermath of its disastrous debut as the Millennium Dome in 2000, has since become one of the world’s leading entertainment venues.

Operated by Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG), it has played host to a wide array of music, theatrical, and sporting events over nearly a quarter of a century.

Trinity College, which was founded by Henry VIII in 1546, bought the O2 lease from Lend Lease and Quintain, the property companies that had taken control of the Millennium Dome site in 2002 for nothing.

In a joint statement issued in response to an enquiry from Sky News, Rothesay and Trinity College Cambridge said they were “pleased to confirm that Rothesay will be the long-term owner of The O2 arena, following a competitive auction process for the lease of this London landmark”.

A spokesperson for Rothesay said separately: “Prestigious and high-quality property assets like the O2 form an important part of Rothesay’s investment strategy, providing the predictable and dependable returns which create real security for the one million-plus pensions we protect.”

Business

Advertising mogul Sorrell approached about S4 Capital deal

Published

1 day ago

August 9, 2025

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Advertising mogul Sorrell approached about S4 Capital deal

Sir Martin Sorrell, the advertising mogul, has received a number of merger approaches for S4 Capital, the London-listed marketing services group he founded seven years ago.

Sky News can reveal that Sir Martin has been contacted in recent weeks by potential suitors including One Equity Partners, a US-based private equity firm which focuses on acquiring companies in the healthcare, industrials, and technology sectors.

This weekend, analysts suggested that One Equity would seek to combine S4 Capital with MSQ, a creative and technology agency group it bought in 2023.

Further details of the possible tie-up were unclear on Saturday, including whether a formal proposal had been made or whether S4 Capital might remain listed on the London Stock Exchange if a deal were to be completed.

S4 Capital is also understood to have attracted recent interest from other parties, the identities of which could not be immediately established.

In March 2024, the Wall Street Journal reported that Sir Martin had rebuffed several offers from Stagwell, an advertising group led by Mark Penn, a former adviser to President Bill Clinton.

New Mountain Capital, another American private equity firm, was also said at the time to have held talks about buying parts or all of S4 Capital.

News of One Equity’s approach puts the venture founded by one of Britain’s most prominent business figures firmly in play after a torrid period in which it has been buffeted by macroeconomic headwinds and a number of accounting issues.

Sir Martin founded S4 Capital in 2018, months after his unexpected and acrimonious departure from WPP, the group he transformed from a manufacturer of wire baskets into the world’s largest provider of marketing services.

The businessman, who has voting control at S4 Capital, used his deep network of institutional relationships to raise money for an acquisition spree at S4, which included technology-focused agencies such as MediaMonks and MightyHive.

S4’s clients now include Alphabet, Amazon, General Motors, Meta, T-Mobile, and Walmart.

Sir Martin’s decision to target acquisitions in the digital content and programmatic media arenas reflected the priorities of what he described as a marketing services group for a new era.

At WPP, he was the architect of a now-widely replicated strategy to assemble hundreds of agency brands under one holding company.

By the time he stepped down, WPP was the owner of creative agency networks such as JWT and Ogilvy, while its media-buying muscle was channelled through the global subsidiary GroupM.

The latest approaches for S4 Capital come during a period of profound change in the global marketing services industry, as artificial intelligence dismantles practices and creative processes that had evolved over decades.

Sir Martin has spurned few opportunities to criticise his successor at WPP, Mark Read, as well as the wider advertising industry, in the seven years since he established S4 Capital.

Last month, WPP announced that Mr Read would be replaced by Cindy Rose, a senior Microsoft executive who has sat on the company’s board as a non-executive director since 2019.

“Cindy has supported the digital transformation of large enterprises around the world – including embracing AI to create new customer experiences, business models and revenue streams,” the WPP chairman, Philip Jansen, said.

“Her expertise in this landscape will be hugely valuable to WPP as the industry navigates fundamental changes and macroeconomic uncertainty.”

WPP has also forfeited its status as the world’s largest marketing services empire to Publicis, and will be shunted even further behind the sector’s biggest players once Omnicom Group’s $13.25bn (£9.85bn) takeover of Interpublic Group is completed.

At the time of Sir Martin’s exit from WPP in April 2018, the company had a market capitalisation of more than £16bn.

On Friday, its market value at its closing share price of 367.5p was just £4.23bn.

Last month, the advertising industry news outlet Campaign reported that WPP had held tentative discussions with the consulting firm Accenture about a potential combination or partnership, underscoring the pressure on legacy marketing services groups.

This weekend, it remained unclear how likely it was that Sir Martin would consummate a deal to combine S4 Capital with another industry player such as One Equity-owned MSQ.

Shares in S4 Capital closed on Friday at 21.2p, giving the company a market capitalisation of £140m.

The stock has fallen by nearly 60% during the last 12 months, and is more than 90% lower than its peak in 2022.

At one point, Sir Martin’s stake in S4 Capital was valued at close to £500m.

A spokeswoman for S4 declined to comment, while a spokesman for One Equity Partners said by email: “OEP is not commenting on this matter.”

Business

Visma owners close to picking banks for £16bn London float

Published

2 days ago

August 8, 2025

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Visma owners close to picking banks for £16bn London float

The owners of Visma, one of Europe’s biggest software companies, are close to hiring bankers for a £16bn flotation that would rank among the London market’s biggest for years.

Sky News understands that Visma’s board and shareholders have convened a beauty parade of investment banks in the last fortnight ahead of an initial public offering (IPO) likely to take place in 2026.

Citi, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley are understood to be among those in contention for the top roles on the deal, City insiders said on Friday.

Several banks are expected to be appointed as global coordinators on the IPO as soon as this month.

Visma is a Norwegian company which supplies accounting, payroll, HR and other business software to well over one million small business customers.

It has grown at a rapid rate in recent years, both organically and through scores of acquisitions, and has seen its profitability and valuation rise substantially during that period.

The business is now valued at about €19bn (£16.4bn) and is partly owned by a number of sovereign wealth funds and other private equity firms.

The majority of the company is owned by Hg, the London-based private equity firm which has backed a string of spectacularly successful companies in the software industry.

Visma’s owners’ decision to pick the UK ahead of competition from Amsterdam represents a welcome boost to the City amid ongoing questions about the attractiveness of the London stock market to international companies.

Rachel Reeves, the chancellor, used last month’s speech at Mansion House to launch a taskforce aimed at generating additional IPO activity in the UK.

Spokespeople claiming to represent Visma at Kekst, a communications firm, did not respond to a series of enquiries about the IPO appointments.

Hg also failed to respond to a request for comment.