Okay, Robotaxi looks cool. But how is this better than Model 2?

Published

5 months ago

October 11, 2024

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Tesla’s Robotaxi event came and went last night, and we finally learned (very few) new details about the much-hyped car that CEO Elon Musk thinks will add $5 trillion to Tesla’s market capitalization.

But the main thing it left me (still) thinking is: why does this car even exist?

Tesla has been talking about robotaxis for a long time, so of course it makes sense that it would unveil a robotaxi… right?

But here’s the rub: when Tesla first started talking about robotaxis, it was in the context of the Model 3 and other vehicles that the company already makes.

As far back as 2016, Tesla was talking about “Tesla Network,” a proposed system that would allow Tesla owners to send out their cars to work as taxis once the company had solved full self-driving.

I mentioned all of this in my Tesla Model 3 review back in 2018, showing some of the details that indicated that Tesla was getting ready for this robotaxi future – such as the use of a phone as a key and an interior camera to keep tabs on occupants.

And this wouldn’t just be applicable to certain vehicles, but to all cars that Tesla makes. Because Tesla also said that all its cars come with the hardware for full self-driving as early as late 2016.

Musk even went so far as to say that Tesla will stop selling cars once it solves autonomy. The idea is that those cars would be more profitable to keep around as robotaxis, that each would be worth $100k-$200k due to this function and that they should be considered “appreciating assets” as a result. (Though Musk did say last night that Tesla will sell Robotaxis for $30k, which runs counter to this past assertion of his).

So there is a long history of Tesla referring to its vehicles as potential future robotaxis, rather than talking about an individual robotaxi product. And it even said the same last night, as there were 20 Robotaxis and 30 other Tesla vehicles shuttling people around at the event. Musk reiterated last night that all cars Tesla makes would be capable of full autonomy, and even said that existing cars would be driving all by themselves prior to when he said the Robotaxi will hit the road in 2026-2027 (though he stumbled and said “let’s not get nuanced here” when the crowd asked whether this would apply to HW3 cars, which Tesla previously promised full autonomy for).

But hey, maybe it makes sense to release an individual Robotaxi product that would be fully focused on this function and no other, in order to save cost and reduce complexity.

That’s certainly an argument, and Tesla’s announced $30k starting price for the Robotaxi/Cybercab product (even Musk seemed unsure which name to call it) is a lower price than any vehicle the company has sold yet, and among the cheapest price we’ve ever seen for an EV (shout out to the all-time value winner, the now-defunct Chevy Bolt).

Also, I have to say, it looked great out there. Compared to the previous renderings/models/spy shot we’ve seen, I thought the final product looked fantastic. If it were just a normal EV, with that design, a small sporty low 2-seater for about that price, I’m sold.

A smaller car, without many of the creature comforts that might be desired by a driver, with more simplicity for less maintenance and easier cleaning, can certainly help to get costs down. And that’s great and needed. A $30k vehicle will be available to more people than a $42k Model 3, the next-cheapest car Tesla currently sells.

But…. why not a $25k Model 2 then?

Tesla already had the answer to this question: the cancelled Model 2

So if Tesla wants to have a cheaper, simpler car that is capable of robo-driving tasks, and if it’s still clear that all of its vehicles will gain this capability, why doesn’t it just make the cheaper, simpler car that it’s been talking about for years: the Model 2.

Not much was known about the Model 2, except that it would be a cheaper, smaller EV, starting at $25,000 – long thought to be the appropriate entry-level for consumer vehicles (the cheapest gas cars in America are around $17k – and a $25k EV would cost about the same after the $7,500 federal tax credit).

But earlier this year, it was reported that Tesla was shutting down Model 2 development. Musk denied that report, but like many of Musk’s denials, it turned out to be true.

Instead, Musk directed the company to pivot to Robotaxi, and rhetorically, he has been talking a lot more about robotaxis, artificial general intelligence robots, and various other pie-in-the-sky promises, in keeping with the tech buzzword du jour..

But while there’s a lot of demand in the stock market for CEOs who incessantly talk about AI, there’s also a lot of demand in the car market for a cheap electric vehicle. And Tesla is a car company, after all, not a stock company (isn’t it?).

And what we do know from the event is that Tesla thinks they can make a self-driving electric vehicle for under $30k, and that that vehicle would be “over-specced” for what it is, using a more powerful AI computer than necessary. And they think they can do this within the next 2 years or so.

If these two things are possible, I believe that those efforts would be better channeled towards the Model 2, rather than the Robotaxi.

While Musk stated in the event that existing vehicles would be capable of full autonomy before the Robotaxi starts shipping, I don’t think anyone believes this. After a decade of FSD coming “at the end of next year,” the boy has thoroughly cried wolf and this timeline does not seem realistic.

Further, Musk said that it would come to California and Texas first, pending regulatory approval. Even if Tesla does swiftly get regulatory approval in those states, that still limits the addressable market while it works to scale up and get approved in other regions. The process of homologating a Model 2 would go much more smoothly than that, and could be sold globally much faster.

And while Tesla’s car timelines also tend to slip by several years, with how long we’ve been talking about a “cheaper Tesla car” and its relative similarity to existing vehicles (as opposed to the vast differences involved in making a Cybertruck or Roadster), I also think the Model 2 could have been manufactured before Robotaxi could (especially when taking into account regulatory timelines).

If that’s the case, then wouldn’t it be better for Tesla to make this car that I believe would be ready before Robotaxi will, that will fulfill a need for a lot of buyers right now (especially in a circumstance where affordable Chinese EVs are popular enough to force protectionist trade measures), that would have global appeal, and that will have all the capabilities of a Robotaxi once (or if) FSD finally ever gets solved?

Maybe it’s about cost-cutting… or maybe it’s about the stock

Now, perhaps part of the reason for Model 2’s cancellation is because Tesla did not see enough cost-cutting possible to build an EV for $25k, or thought the level of cutting would be too severe to sell desirable consumer vehicles at that price. With a Robotaxi, perhaps customers would accept a more bare bones experience than in a Model 2 that they own as a personal vehicle, and maybe that’s the only way that Tesla can get the price down.

And there’s something to be said for a vehicle that’s fully autonomous-focused, with things like inductive charging and being designed for robo-vacuums to clean the car without human intervention (both were briefly glossed over in last night’s presentation).

But there’s definitely demand for a cheaper, human-driven EV, and I think Tesla got the order wrong on this one – it would be better to sell a bunch of Model 2s earlier than a bunch of Robotaxis later, since I don’t think full level 5 FSD, along with regulatory approval, is coming within the next year or two. And if you have to choose whether to have hardware or software ready first, you definitely want to choose software – because hardware costs a heck of a lot to build.

Or… maybe all this AI talk is more about the stock than it is about actual products, as alluded to above. This has been a common theory among Tesla haters for some time, but was never all that realistic because Tesla did and does sell a lot of cars, and a whole ecosystem around them of energy products like Powerwall and Superchargers, which work well and make a lot of revenue, with pretty good margins.

But when Musk suggests that Robotaxi will be worth $5 trillion in market cap, when he goes on a months-long rampage at the company to sell his own stock grant package to shareholders, and when he goes on about long-term dreams and how Tesla is going to change the world in 6 huge ways next year alone (really next year this time, I promise), that feels less like a mature and achievable product timeilne and more like a set of actions that are driven by a desire to, let’s say, make up for a really bad personal business decision that he funded on the back of TSLA’s formerly-high share price.

But if it is about that, it seems that Elon has run out of rope. The market, this time, doesn’t seem too convinced. Maybe instead of sky-high promises that nobody thinks will be met, and that you are burning public trust with each time you make them (or uh, maybe that’s happening for another reason)… people really do just want a cheaper car that everyone can buy.

Make it.

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Environment

Renault’s insane 5 Turbo 3E electric hot hatch ships in 2027, limited to 1,980 units

Published

5 hours ago

March 17, 2025

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Renault's insane 5 Turbo 3E electric hot hatch ships in 2027, limited to 1,980 units

Renault has released more information about its upcoming Renault 5 Turbo 3E electric rally car, and boy howdy, does it look hot as hell.

For background: auto enthusiasts look very fondly on the rally scene in the 1980s, when there was a serious arms race between auto manufacturers (particularly European ones) to make wilder and wilder race cars.

One of the most famous cars from that time period was the Renault 5 Turbo, with its iconic boxy design and chunky rear fenders which stood out even against other boxy cars of that age. It was based on the old Renault 5 hatchback, which recently got an electric rebirth of its own.

Calling on that history, Renault first showed off a 5 Turbo-inspired drift car concept back in 2022, but it was very clearly a concept – it didn’t really have an interior, for one.

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Then, this last December, Renault came back and said no, really, we’re serious – we want to make this thing, and we want to put 540hp of electric power in it. At that time, it was just renders, but now Renault has a real prototype, and is putting plans in writing as to how it’s going to bring this crazy concept to market.

Today Renault unveiled what it’s calling “the first electric mini-supercar,” with lots of extra details on what looks like eye-watering performance in an actual sporty package (unlike so many of the giant electric SUVs we keep seeing these days…).

The biggest headline specs are these: 540hp (400kW), 3,196lbs (1,450kg), 160 inches (4,080mm) long, with a 0-60 time of <3.5 seconds and a top speed of 168mph (270km/h).

Heck. Yeah.

The power is delivered by dual motors – but rather than putting them inboard on the front and rear axles, like so many EVs do, the Renault 5 Turbo 3E uses in-wheel motors, with one in each rear wheel. So this thing is rear-wheel drive, just like the original 5 Turbo.

But unlike the original 5 Turbo, which topped out at around 163 lbft (220Nm) of torque (and only after you got it up to 3,250rpm first), Renault claims the 5 Turbo 3E’s motors are capable of an absurd 3,500lbft (4,800Nm) of torque (though that number is measured at the wheels, not at the driveshaft… because it doesn’t have a driveshaft, since it’s using in-wheel motors. So it’s not really directly comparable to other vehicles’ torque numbers).

All that torque on the rear wheels means one thing: this car will surely go sideways at will. But to make that job even easier, Renault offers a truly silly giant handbrake right smack in the middle of the car’s two front (and only) seats.

And if that wild dash and seat design doesn’t do it for you – Renault says it will offer basically unlimited customization to its customers.

Along with a long list of personalization options, many of which are inspired by famous versions of the original Renault 5 Turbo, Renault designers will help customers put together these options to make each vehicle unique.

But despite all this excitement, there’s one (or, more than a hundred thousand) big downsides: it’s not gonna be cheap. While Renault hasn’t listed a price yet, rumor is that it will start firmly in the six figure range, and potentially go up to around 200,000 (Dollars, Euros or Pounds – take your pick), depending on which personalizations you select.

But even more disappointingly: there’s no good reason for us to quote that price in dollars, because like every other fun thing it’s not coming to the US. Renault plans to offer it in “several key markets including Europe, the Middle East, Japan and Australia.”

And the last caveat: even with the money, it might be hard to get your hands on one of these. Renault will only sell 1,980 examples, referring back to the year that the original 5 Turbo was introduced. So, better get chummy with your local Renault rep, cause we can’t imagine those will last long.

Electrek’s Take

In a world where EVs (and cars in general) seem to just be getting bigger and bigger, heavier and heavier, this one is finally putting us back in the right direction.

Now, of course, it’s still quite a lot heavier (+~1,000lbs) than the 1980s version, and longer too (+~16 inches). Part of this is due to changing consumer tastes, part of it is due to stricter safety standards, and part of it is because companies aren’t pushing the envelope as hard as they were in the time of Group B rally cars. And then of course there’s the battery – a chonky 70kWh for ~250mi (~400km) of range, per WLTP standards (it will also have 350kW, 800V charging, taking 15 minutes to go from 15-80%).

But it’s also one of the first times we’ve seen an actual date associated with what looks like a truly violent electric hot hatch. Renault actually put out, in writing, that they plan to get this car to road in 2027 – unlike the Mercedes EQA concept, which turned into a freaking SUV; or the Golf GTI, which we’ve heard nothing about since 2023; or the Rally-inspired Rivian R3X, which looks awesome but we’ll have to wait until after the R2 comes out first.

There are some other extant cars that you might consider an electric hot hatch – like the Ioniq 5N – but that’s more than two feet longer and ~1,600lbs heavier than the 5 Turbo 3E claims it will be, so they’re really not in the same class at all. Closer to the same class is the Volvo EX30, at 7 inches longer, ~800lbs heavier, and ~120 less horsepower. Then there are the similarly-sized Mini Cooper SE, and even-smaller Fiat 500e Abarth, but both of those pack less than a third as much horsepower at comparable weights to the Renault.

So, with the specs we’ve seen, it’s in a class of its own – at least on paper, and at least for now. Your turn, Rivian – and the rest of the industry, too. Renault looks like they’re throwing down a gauntlet and showing us what can be done, but let’s stop seeing cancelled concepts and limited-edition prestige cars, and get some more fun, small, powerful EVs – and some of us would love to see them outside of Europe, too.

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Environment

London is getting 570 ‘flat and flush’ sidewalk EV chargers

Published

15 hours ago

March 17, 2025

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London is getting 570 'flat and flush' sidewalk EV chargers

London sidewalk EV chargers — Photo: Trojan Energy

EV drivers in the Borough of Camden in London will soon see a major boost in sidewalk chargers, thanks to a new partnership between Camden Council and Scottish charge point company Trojan Energy.

The council awarded Trojan Energy a contract to install over 570 on-street Level 2 EV chargers by 2026. The project kicks off with an initial rollout of 70 chargers in July 2025, with the rest coming as suitable locations are identified. This expansion builds on a successful trial from 2022, which received positive responses from local EV owners.

Trojan’s 22 kW chargers have a clever design—they sit “flat and flush” with sidewalks, meaning no bulky units cluttering up the pavement. Residents without driveways can easily “plug and play” using personal adapters, connecting their EVs to points linked via underground cables to a nearby cabinet. The chargers are grouped in clusters, increasing availability and convenience for drivers. Trojan launched an app last month that enables drivers to find chargers, check availability, and check charging history.

The sidewalk EV chargers won’t just help individual EV owners in the London borough; it’ll also support car-sharing programs, helping Camden reduce unnecessary car ownership and encourage more people to walk, bike, or take transit. Funding for the project comes from the UK government’s On-street Residential Chargepoint Scheme (ORCS).

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Councillor Adam Harrison, cabinet member for Planning and a Sustainable Camden (pictured above left) said, “By promoting active travel such as walking and cycling and facilitating this shift to electric vehicles with convenient charging points, we hope to improve air quality, reduce emissions, and support environmental resilience across the borough.”

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Turing AI and “bulletproof” EV batteries arrive with 2025 Xpeng G6 SUV

Published

17 hours ago

March 16, 2025

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2025 Xpeng G6 all-electric SUV with 5C ultra-fast charging “AI batteries” launched in China

The Xpeng G6 all-electric SUV has received a raft of 81 updates for the 2025 model year – and chief among these is a new, “bulletproof,” ultra-fast 5C charging “A.I. battery” that can go from 10 to 80% charge in just twelve minutes.

Sized and priced to put the best-selling Tesla Model Y firmly in its crosshairs, the Xpeng G6 SUV has been substantially upgraded for 2025 with three trim levels starting at “just” 176,800 yuan ($27,620, as I type this). Meaning that, despite the improved range, ADAS offerings, and charging speed, the 2025 model’s starting price is nearly 11% lower than last year’s already popular model.

For that money, G6 buyers will get the Xpeng-developed Turing AI intelligent driving system – an advanced ADAS system powered by the company’s 40-core “Turing chip” processor that promises to deliver the power of three high-performance chips in one.

The Turing chip is the basis for Xpeng’s Canghai neural network, which the company claims will eventually support full-scale L4 autonomous driving with enhanced safety features that have 33x the bandwidth, and 12x faster camera image processing than its main competitors, creating a foundation for full-scenario AI-enabled driving experiences that probably won’t smash your car into a Wile E. Coyote-style mural.

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Turing AI launch

The newsworthy specs don’t stop there, however. The new 2025 Xpeng G6 also offers the company’s new “bulletproof” 5C AI batteries.

For those of you not in the know, the “5C” there refers to “five cycles,” and basically means that the battery can go from 10 to 80% full five times in an hour. 60 minutes in an hour, 12 minutes to go from 10-80%, that’s 1/5th of an hour, so it’s 5 cycles … or: 5C. A 6C battery would do the trick in 10 minutes, a 4C in 15, etc.

As for what makes the Xpeng AI batteries “bulletproof,” the company claims the battery is wrapped in a sort of armor that can withstand more than 1,000 degrees C of heat, up to 80 tons of collision force in a side-impact scenario, and more than 2000 joules of impact from the bottom.

2025 Xpeng G6 available models

2025 Xpeng G6 in Dark Night Black trim; via Xpeng.

625 Long-range Max Technology Edition: 176,800 yuan (~ $24,400)
625 Long-range Max Ultimate Edition: 186,800 yuan (~ $25,800)
725 Ultra-long-range Max Ultimate Edition: 198,800 yuan (~ $27,500)

The 625 models get 625 km of range on the CLTC (China Light-Duty Vehicle Test Cycle), which translates to about 275 miles of EPA range. The 725 model adds another 100 km (60 miles) of range. The AI batteries in all three models go from 3C to 5C charging speed and ship with the Turing AI self-driving system as standard equipment.

Other upgrades for 2025 include a 9-inch streaming rearview mirror, updates to the soft-touch rubber and plastic materials in the cabin, and Xpeng’s new “cloud-sense” seats that support heat, ventilation, and (up front) even massage.

Two new body colors have also been added to the G6′ pallette: Starry Purple and Cloud Beige (shown, below), bring the total of available colors to six.

Xpeng went to Weibo to announce that it took the redesigned 2025 G6 just seven minutes to log 5,000 firm orders, on its first day of availability.

Electrek’s Take

I don’t always agree with Ford CEO ~~Chris~~ Jim Farley, but he’s absolutely right about Chinese EVs setting the standard for range, performance, and technology. It seems like every new EV that emerges from China’s tech-forward car brands makes EVs from Ford and Tesla look the level-three generic offerings from whatever the automotive equivalent of Dollar Tree is.

The only problem with that analogy is that the American offerings often cost consumers twice as much. And, before you jump into the comments and write about government subsidies and federalized healthcare costs and other supposed Chinese advantages – remember that we could do those things, too, if we wanted.

What would our excuse be then?

SOURCE | IMAGES: Xpeng, via CarNewsChina; CNEVPost.

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