Tesla Full Self-Driving is getting more dangerous as it get better
I just came back from driving about 200 miles (350 km) using Tesla’s (Supervised) Full Self-Driving, and the system is getting better, but it’s also getting more dangerous as it gets better.
The risk of complacency is scary.
Last weekend, I went on a road trip that covered about 200 miles from Shawinigan to Quebec City and back, and I used Tesla’s (Supervised) Full Self-Driving (FSD), v12.5.4.1 to be precise, on almost the entire trip.
Here’s the good and the bad, and the fact that the former is melting into the latter.
The Good
The system is increasingly starting to feel more natural. The way it handles merging, lane changes, and intersections feels less robotic and more like a human driver.
The new camera-based driver monitoring system is a massive upgrade from the steering wheel torque sensor that Tesla has used for years. I only had one issue with it where it kept giving me alerts to pay attention to the road even though I was doing just that, and it eventually shut FSD down for the drive because of it.
But this happened only once in the few weeks since I’ve used the latest update.
For the first time, I can get good chunks of city driving without any intervention or disengagement. It’s still far from perfect, but there’s a notable improvement.
It stopped to let pedestrians cross the street, it handled roundabouts fairly well, and it drives at more natural speeds on country roads (most of the time).
The system is getting good to the point that it can induce some dangerous complacency. More on that later.
As I have been saying for years, if Tesla was developing this technology in a vacuum and not selling it to the public as “about to become unsupervised self-driving”, most people would be impressed by it.
The Bad
Over those ~200 miles, I had five disengagements, including a few that were getting truly dangerous. It was seemingly about to run a red light once and a stop another time.
I say seemingly because it is getting hard to tell sometimes due to FSD often approaching intersections with stops and red traffic lights more aggressively.
It used to drive closer to how I’ve been driving my EVs forever, which consists of slowly decelerating using regenerative braking when approaching a stop. But this latest FSD update often maintains a higher speed, getting into those intersections and brakes more aggressively, often using mechanical brakes.
This is a strange behavior that I don’t like, but I started at least getting the feeling of it, which makes me somewhat confident that FSD would blow that red light and stop sign on those two occasions.
Another disengagement appeared to be due to sun glare in the front cameras. I am getting more of that this time of year as I drive more often during the sunsets, which happen earlier in the day.
It appears to be a real problem with Tesla’s current FSD configuration.
On top of the disengagement, I had an incalculable number of interventions. Interventions are when the driver has to input a command, but it’s not enough to disengage FSD. That’s mainly due to the fact that I keep having to activate my turn signal to tell the system to go back into the right lane after passing.
FSD only goes back into the right lane after passing if there’s a car coming close behind you in the left lane.
I’ve shared this finding on X, and I was disappointed by the response I got. I suspected that this could be due to American drivers being an important part of the training data, and no offense as this is an issue everywhere, but American drivers tend not to respect the guidelines (and law in some places) of the left lane being only for passing on average.
There's also another thing that frustrates me so much. The car needs to go back into the right lane after passing.
You can see that this model is trained mainly on American drivers (no offense, it's something that happens everywhere, but it is commonly a more accepted practice…
— Fred Lambert (@FredericLambert) September 23, 2024
I feel like this could be an easy fix or at the very least, an option to add to the system for those who want to be good drivers even when FSD is active.
I also had an intervention where I had to press the accelerator pedal to tell FSD to turn left on a flashing green light, which it was hesitating to do as I was holding up traffic behind me.
Electrek’s Take
The scariest part for me is that FSD is getting good. If I take someone with no experience with FSD and take them on a short 10-15 mile drive, there’s a good chance I get no intervention, and they come out really impressed.
It is the same with a regular Tesla driver who consistently gets good FSD experiences.
This can build complacency with the drivers and result in paying less attention.
Fortunately, the new driver monitoring system can greatly help with that since it tracks driver attention, unlike Tesla’s previous system. However, it only takes a second of not paying attention to get into an accident, and the system allows you that second of inattention.
Furthermore, the system is getting so good at handling intersections that even if you are paying attention, you might end up blowing through a red light or stop sign, as I have mentioned above. You might feel confident that FSD is going to stop, but with its more aggressive approach to the intersection, you let it go even though it doesn’t start braking as soon as you would like it to, and then before you know it, it doesn’t brake at all.
There’s a four-way stop near my place on the south shore of Montreal that I’ve driven through many times with FSD without issue and yet, FSD v12.5.4 was seemingly about to blow right past it the other day.
Again, it’s possible that it was just braking late, but it was way too late for me to feel comfortable.
Also, while it is getting better, and better at a more noticeable pace lately, the crowdsource data, which is the only data available as Tesla refuses to release any, points to FSD being still years away from being capable of unsupervised self-driving:
Tesla would need about a 1,000x improvement in miles between disengagement.
I’ve lost a lot of faith in Tesla getting there due to things like the company’s recent claim that it completed its September goals for FSD, which included a “3x improvement in miles between critical disengagement” without any evidence that this happened.
In fact, the crowdsource data shows a regression on that front between v12.3 and v12.5.
I fear that Elon Musk’s attitude and repeated claim that FSD is incredible, combined with the fact that it actually getting better and his minions are raving about it, could lead to dangerous complacency.
Let’s be honest. Accidents with FSD are inevitable, but I think Tesla could do more to reduce the risk – mainly by being more realistic about what it is accomplishing here.
It is developing a really impressive vision-based ADAS system, but it is nowhere near on the verge of becoming unsupervised self-driving.
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If you haven’t noticed, Genesis is quickly making a name for itself in the US. The luxury automaker now has 60 sales outlets as it expands into new US states. With new EVs launching, Genesis is eyeing a bigger share of the US luxury market.
Hyundai Motor Group’s Genesis brand is quietly emerging as a powerhouse in the US luxury market. Genesis marked its entry into the luxury segment in 2008 as a Hyundai-branded model.
In 2015, Hyundai announced Genesis would become an independent luxury brand. Since launching its first vehicle in the US, the luxury brand’s sales have surged from 7,000 in 2016 to over 69,000 last year. It even outsold Nissan’s Infiniti.
According to Genesis, this is just the start. The Korean luxury brand wants an even bigger slice of the market as it eyes rivals like Porsche.
A big reason behind the brand’s confidence is its new lineup of stylishly electric models. Genesis sells three EVs in the US: The GV60, Electrified G80, and Electrified GV70.
After introducing the Electrified GV70 just last year, the electric SUV is already Genesis’ top-selling EV in the US. According to Kelley Blue Book, Genesis sold 2,343 electric GV70 models in the US through September.
Genesis eyes a bigger share of the US luxury market
Altogether, the luxury brand’s EV sales reached over 4,600 through the first nine months of 2024, topping Porsche (4,291) and Volvo (3,644).
Genesis made a statement at the LA Auto Show, unveiling the updated 2026 Electrified GV70. The luxury electric SUV now includes more range and an NACS port so drivers can charge at Tesla Superchargers. It will go on sale in the first half of 2025.
Meanwhile, Genesis showcased its new GV60 Magma Concept at the event, its first dedicated high-performance EV. The brand sees its Magma performance brand rivaling that of Geman luxury brands like Mercedes AMG, BMW M, and Audi RS.
The Genesis GV60 Magma EV will launch next year, spearheading the brand’s “expansion into the realm of high-performance vehicles.”
Genesis enhanced the battery and motor while fine-tuning the chassis, thermodynamics, and profile for more power and efficiency.
It also features an aggressive new design, sitting much lower and wider than the current GV60 model. Genesis added a Magma-exclusive sound system to give it a sports car-like feel in the cockpit.
In April, we got our first look at the G80 EV Magma concept, which could be a potential challenger to Tesla’s Model S Plaid and the Porsche Taycan GT Turbo.
The luxury brand is expected to launch its flagship electric three-row SUV next year, the GV90. Genesis previewed the ultra-luxury EV in March after unveiling the Neolun concept.
Genesis now has 60 sales bases in the US, with new stores in Washington, Minnesota, New York, and Florida. It’s also building 30 in Canada as it expands its presence in the North American luxury market.
The luxury brand is opening a new dedicated design center in California. The “Genesis Design California” will open in the first half of 2025 as it builds out its US network.
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A rumor spreading like wildfire on social media claims BYD will be taking over NIO (NYSE: NIO) as the EV giant gobbles up market share in China. The rumor was posted by a suspected BYD employee, but NIO is denying the claim.
BYD acquiring NIO would be a massive move as China’s leading EV maker continues to dominate the market. But that’s not going to happen.
According to CnEVPost, NIO’s assistant vice president for branding and communications, Ma Lin, denied the rumors that BYD is taking over the company on Friday.
Ma posted a screenshot on social media asking BYD’s general manager of branding and PR, Li Yunfei if the person who posted the fake rumor was an employee.
Earlier today, the suspected employee claimed BYD and NIO were setting up a joint venture. In a Weibo post, the suspect said BYD would have majority control of the partnership with a 51% share while NIO would get the remaining 49% ownership.
Ma told Li that if it was, in fact, a BYD employee, he needed to issue an official clarification and apologize. If not, they can get the police involved together. Li also denied the rumors, saying the claim was seriously untrue.
NIO denies rumors that BYD is taking over the company
This is not the first time rumors surfaced that BYD will be taking over NIO, but because it is a suspected employee, the post has garnered more attention.
BYD is on a major hiring spree as it ramps up production to meet the higher demand. The EV giant now has over 900,000 employees, making it by far the largest A-share listed company in China.
After selling over 500,000 vehicles for the first time in a single month in October, BYD’s surge is heating up as the EV giant expands overseas for growth.
October was BYD’s fifth consecutive record sales month as it closes in on auto leaders like Ford in global deliveries.
NIO is also gaining momentum, with sales topping the 20,000 mark for the sixth straight month in October. With output of its new lower-priced Onvo L60 electric SUV ramping up, NIO expects to continue seeing higher demand.
Ma said on Friday that NIO’s “recent situation is quite good.” The company’s head of PR added, “Cash flow turned positive in the third quarter, gross profit improved in October, earning an extra RMB 100 million, and Onvo (deliveries) will exceed 10,000 in December.”
NIO is launching its third brand, Firefly, with deliveries kicking off in the first half of 2025. The company expects sales to double next year as it works to become profitable by 2026.
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Hyundai Motors is recalling 145,235 EVs and other “electrified” vehicles in the US, citing concerns about a loss of driving power, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said on Friday.
The NHTSA announced this morning that the recall affects selected IONIQ 5 and IONIQ 6 EVs, as well as certain luxury Genesis models, including the GV60, GV70, and G80 electrified variants, from the 2022-2025 model years, Reuters reported.
It looks like the issue stems from “the integrated charging control units in these vehicles, which may become damaged and fail to charge the 12-volt battery. This malfunction could lead to a complete loss of drive power, posing safety risks for drivers,” the NHTSA stated.
If you’re an owner of one of these Hyundai models dating 2022-2025, stay tuned. Hyundai has not yet provided a timeline as to when affected vehicles will be repaired.
To make that happen, the company’s dealers will inspect and replace the charging unit and its fuse if necessary, NHTSA said. Free of charge, of course.
Importantly, no crashes, injuries, fatalities, or fires due to this issue have been reported in the US, Hyundai reported.
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