Tesla refuses to do the right thing about ‘Full Self-Driving’ transfers
Tesla is refusing to do the right thing about ‘Full Self-Driving’ package transfers and instead holds its own incapacity to deliver the package over the head of its owners.
I just had a conversation with Tesla about doing the right thing about FSD transfer. I got an answer: a “categoric no”.
Tesla is literally using its own incapacity to deliver a feature it promised and sold to people, unsupervised self-driving, as a demand trigger to get people to order new cars.
The Context
For those who are not aware, Tesla has been selling since 2016 something called “Full Self-Driving package”, FSD for short, that includes advanced driver assist features, and the automaker has been promising that it will eventually result in unsupervised self-driving capability through over-the-air software updates.
At first, Tesla claimed that all cars produced since 2016 would be able to achieve that. However, Tesla quickly found out that it was wrong and introduced a new computer called HW3 in 2019 and retrofited vehicles with it.
In 2023, Tesla introduced again a new computer, HW4, but the automaker claimed that it would just add more computing power to improve capacity in the future, and it was still confident that it could deliver on its self-driving promises with HW3 cars.
In fact, Tesla CEO Elon Musk even claimed that software updates on HW4 cars would lag 6 months behind updates on HW3 cars as Tesla focuses on delivering on its self-driving promises on the older vehicles.
That lasted less than a year. Since last year, Tesla has been focusing updates on HW4 as it is reaching the compute limits of HW3. As we previously reported, Tesla is now using both nodes on the HW3 computer – meaning that it doesn’t even have any compute redundancy, which is required for level 4-5 autonomy.
Late last year, Tesla finally signaled that it might be reaching the limits of HW3 and said that it would provide computer retrofits if needed, but there’s no retrofit in sight despite HW3 falling now months behind HW4 cars.
With the questionable hardware situation and the even more questionable data pointing to Tesla being way behind schedule on its self-driving ambition, Tesla FSD owners are asking for a simple thing from the automaker, and it can’t even do that.
The Problem
With the situation looking dire for HW3, Tesla owners have been asking the automaker for years to link the FSD software package to the owner rather than the car – meaning that if you upgrade your car to a new Tesla, you can transfer your FSD software package, which you paid up to $15,000 for and Tesla never fully delivered, to the new car.
Doesn’t this sound fair? Tesla sold you a product they never delivered, and you are only giving them another shot on the newer hardware with a new car, which has a higher chance of success.
It doesn’t cost Tesla anything since it’s just a software package that it transfers to hardware that is standard on all cars.
Yet, Tesla has refused to do the right thing here. Musk was asked several times by Tesla owners about doing that and refused. Instead, he devised a plan to use Tesla’s own inability to deliver self-driving capability as a demand trigger.
In the summer of 2023, Musk finally agreed to allow FSD transfers, but not because it was the right thing to do. Instead, he said it would be a “one-time amnesty” for a single quarter. Tesla used this to boost sales in the quarter.
Tesla ended up bringing back the incentive four more times when it needed to boost orders, making Musk a liar for saying it would only be for a quarter. By claiming it’s only for this one time, Tesla is creating urgency in trying to get people to upgrade – instead of doing the right thing and offering everyone who bought FSD the ability to transfer until Tesla actually delivers on its promise.
Currently, Tesla is not offering it because it doesn’t need to. There are plenty of other factors boosting demand right now including the new Model Y, the fear of losing the tax credit in the US, and in Canada, Tesla just announced a price increase coming next month – pushing people to take delivery this month.
I reached out to Tesla about transferring my FSD on a new car this week, and I was told “the FSD transfer window is closed right now”. After explaining all this above to the salesperson and highlighting that it’s the right thing to do not to charge me $11,000 for a software package that I already bought and they never delivered, they agreed to run it up the chain.
The next day, I was told that upper management responded: “a categoric no.”
Electrek’s Take
It’s such a simple thing to do. It’s not only the right thing to do, but it’s also smart for Tesla as it reduces the obvious liability of having HW3 cars that paid for FSD.
At this point, it’s clear that Tesla will never be able to deliver on its promised unsupervised Full Self-Driving capabilities on HW3 cars. Should we really be surprised? Tesla was wrong before and had to upgrade cars from HW2.5 to HW3, which is now 6 years old.
Tesla didn’t know what hardware it needed to deliver self-driving then, and there’s a good chance it doesn’t know now. But even then, would anyone seriously believe that Tesla would deliver unsupervised self-driving capability on 6-year-old hardware? I think not.
Therefore, every HW3 vehicle Tesla sold with a FSD package is a liability. It makes for them to remove the packages from those cars and move them to more recent vehicles with a higher chance of ever delivering on their promise – even though there’s plenty of room for doubt with those cars too.
Regardless, It’s about doing the right thing for your customers instead of using your own inability to deliver a product you promised as a demand lever for more orders. It’s worse than the tactics used by car dealerships that Tesla despises so much.
As usual, I want to highlight that I think FSD is an incredible product, and if it was developed without Elon Musk claiming that it would achieve unsupervised self-driving by the end of every year for the last 5 years and Tesla selling the product to customers before it is ready, I think it would be much more celebrated.
But instead, Tesla and Musk are doing those things, and many people see it as a fraudulent and dangerous product. It doesn’t help when the CEO grossly misrepresents data about the program.
FTC: We use income earning auto affiliate links. More.
Environment
Podcast: how Elon killed Tesla Model 2, global EV sales surge, and Chinese EVs keep killing it
In the Electrek Podcast, we discuss the most popular news in the world of sustainable transport and energy. In this week’s episode, we discuss how Elon Musk killed Tesla Model 2, global EV sales surging, how Chinese EVs keep killing it, and more.
The show is live every Friday at 4 p.m. ET on Electrek’s YouTube channel.
As a reminder, we’ll have an accompanying post, like this one, on the site with an embedded link to the live stream. Head to the YouTube channel to get your questions and comments in.
After the show ends at around 5 p.m. ET, the video will be archived on YouTube and the audio on all your favorite podcast apps:
We now have a Patreon if you want to help us avoid more ads and invest more in our content. We have some awesome gifts for our Patreons and more coming.
Here are a few of the articles that we will discuss during the podcast:
Here’s the live stream for today’s episode starting at 4:00 p.m. ET (or the video after 5 p.m. ET):
FTC: We use income earning auto affiliate links. More.
Environment
RadRunner e-bikes from $999, EcoFlow DELTA Pro 3 with solar panels $2,999, Anker Everfrost review, more
Well folks, the weekend is nearly here and before it officially arrives we’ve pieced together the latest roundup of Green Deals. Leading the pack today are RadRunner 2 and 3 Plus e-bikes from $999 as well as an EcoFlow flash sale that takes the brand’s robust DELTA Pro 3 with four 125W solar panels down to a new $2,999 low. We’ve also went hands-on with Anker’s SOLIX EverFrost 2 58L Electric Cooler, and the full review is waiting for you to scope out right here. There are also plenty of other deals from earlier in the week that are still live, so head below and we’ll get you caught up on what you may have missed.
Head below for more and, of course, Electrek’s best EV buying and leasing deals. Also, check out the new Electrek Tesla Shop for the best deals on Tesla accessories.
Rad’s ‘jack-of-all-trades’ RadRunner 2 and RadRunner 3 Plus e-bikes provide utility with mobility at low prices from $999
Having begun back in February, and now continuing with Rad Power’s current Earth Day Sale running through April 23, the brand still has two of its three RadRunner series e-bikes down at the lowest prices in their history, while the RadRunner Plus model has run out of stock. Starting with the lowest priced, you can hop aboard the brand’s RadRunner 2 Utility e-bike for just $999 shipped, bringing costs down from its $1,499 post-2024 tariff pricing. Before this price cut began, things had only ever fallen as low as $1,199 before the summer of last year, with discounts following July only ever dropping to $1,299. But with this shake-up, you’ll score $500 off the going rate for as long as supplies last, gaining a versatile means to commute and run errands at the lowest price we have tracked.
Given the moniker of Rad’s “jack-of-all-trades” model, the RadRunner 2 is an affordable means to get around during commutes, joyrides, errand running, and more. I see them, and their counterparts in the series, parked outside my local grocery store frequently, as more and more folks in Brooklyn seem to be finding them as a solid alternative to owning a car. You’ll get up to 50 miles of travel here with its four PAS levels activated at up to 20 MPH top speeds with its combination of a 750W brushless gear hub motor and the 672Wh battery. Along with the simplified control panel for its riding settings, it also comes stocked with a rear-mounted cargo rack that offers a 120-pound payload, puncture-resistant fat tires, a standard LED headlight, and an integrated taillight with both brake light and flash mode capabilities.
The upgraded RadRunner 3 Plus e-bike, meanwhile, is also still down at it’s newest all-time low of $1,699 shipped, brought down from $2,199. It sports the same 750W motor and 672Wh battery combination for achieving 45+ miles of travel through its five PAS levels at up to 20 MPH speeds. There are some notable differences here, like the Tektro hydraulic disc brakes that provide better stopping power (over the RadRunner 2’s mechanical ones), as well as a 350-pound payload (50 pounds more total), and a longer step-thru design for a more ergonomic riding position. There are also other features like puncture-resistant fat tires, fenders over both wheels, the LED headlight and brake-light capable integrated taillight (with the auto-on functionality), and LCD screen for settings.
EcoFlow’s latest flash sale gives you the multi-capable DELTA Pro 3 with four 125W solar panels at a new $2,999 low, more
As part of its ongoing Mega Sale through April 25, EcoFlow has launched the next round of its flash offers lasting through the rest of the day. The main deal here is the DELTA Pro 3 Portable Power Station bundled alongside four 125W solar panels for $2,999 shipped. Coming down off its usual $4,598 price tag, we’ve only ever seen discounts take it down as low as $3,199 before today. For the rest of the day, you can take advantage of this lower-than-ever pricing to score one of the brand’s newer solar generator packages at a 35% markdown, giving you $1,599 in savings at a new all-time low price. It even beats out Amazon, where it still sits $300 higher.
One of the brand’s newer models that has been quite popular since releasing back in June, the EcoFlow DELTA Pro 3 starts off with an already impressive 4,096Wh LiFePO4 battery capacity with a steady 4,000W of power output that surges up to 6,000W. It comes with some equally impressive expansion capabilities up to 48,000Wh with additional equipment, with its output also expanding up to 12,000W when three of these power stations are connected together, covering major home backup needs. Among the many units under the brand’s flag, this one offers the widest amount of ways to recharge its own battery, with seven solo options and 18 combination options. A standard wall outlet will have it back at an 80% battery in 50 minutes, while also offering other options like solar charging (with a max 2,600W input), EV, automotive auxiliary outlets, dual PV charging, and much more.
It’s been given 14 output ports, divided up amongst seven ACs, two USB-As, two USB-Cs, and three DCs, and offers up the complete array of smart controls accessed through the companion app to monitor and adjust settings as it keeps your devices and appliances running. It was the first unit to be given the latest X-Core 3.0 tech, expanding its surging capabilities and charging speeds while also running at quieter decibels and cooler temperatures, as well as improving upon the battery and smart home management, providing “explosion-proof” battery packs, and upgrading its parallel capacity expansion performance.
The second of today’s flash savings gives you the brand’s 800W Alternator Charger at $349 shipped, coming down from its regular $399 pricing during this sale and its full $599 rate. With this device, you’ll be able to recharge any power station you have via your car’s alternator, juicing the battery back up while on the move – which makes a perfect companion for those who may be taking their setups on the road.
FTC: We use income earning auto affiliate links. More.
A lawsuit alleging that Tesla is inflating mileage to avoid warranty claims is already being compared to Dieselgate and referred to as ‘Tesla Odometergate.’
Is Tesla having its own Dieselgate, or is it a nothing burger?
A new class action lawsuit filed in California against Tesla alleges that the automaker is using “predictive algorithms” to inflate mileage at the odometers, allowing Tesla to claim higher mileage past warranty limits.
Lawyers for the plaintiff wrote in the lawsuit:
Rather than relying on mechanical or electronic systems to measure distance, Plaintiff alleges on information and belief that Tesla Inc. employs an odometer system that utilizes predictive algorithms, energy consumption metrics, and driver behavior multipliers that manipulate and misrepresent the actual mileage travelled by Tesla Vehicles. In so doing, Defendants can, and do, accelerate the rate of depreciation of the value of Tesla Vehicles and also the expiration of Tesla Vehicle warranties to reduce or avoid responsibility for contractually required repairs as well as increase the purchase of its extended warranty policy.
The lawsuit refers to patents filed by Tesla regarding its mileage counter, but it primarily relies on the experience of its lead plaintiff.
Nyree Hinton, a data professional from Los Angeles, is the lead plaintiff in the lawsuit and shared his own experience that led to making these allegations.
In December 2022, Hinton purchased a used 2020 Tesla Model Y with 36,772 miles on the odometer. He received Tesla’s Basic Vehicle Limited Warranty, which covers repairs for four years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first.
Shortly after, Hinton noticed that his vehicle’s mileage increased at an unexpected rate. Despite driving approximately 20 miles per day, based on his own estimate, the odometer indicated an average of over 72 miles per day. This rapid mileage accumulation led to the warranty expiring sooner than anticipated, resulting in Hinton incurring a $10,000 suspension repair bill that he believed should have been covered under the warranty otherwise.
Other than Hinton’s experience, the lawsuit is light on data, but it does cite other Tesla owners claiming to have similar experiences on forums and social media.
Here’s the full lawsuit:
Tesla’s own Dieselgate or a nothing burger
If the allegations in this lawsuit are factual, it would indeed be a significant scandal. However, it is light on proof.
Hinton appears to have closely tracked his own experience, and he has some credibility as a data analyst. We have no reason not to believe him, but the case would need a lot more evidence to move forward.
Electrek reached out to ‘Green’, a well-known Tesla hacker who frequently discovers new features and specifications in Tesla’s software and firmware.
He told us that he doubts Tesla would have been able to hide something like that from him and the broader whitehat hacking community, but he admits they weren’t looking for it.
Green believes that it is likely that Tesla uses predictive algorithms for its odometer, but it could be as simple as accounting for tire wear, since tire rotation is used to calculate odometer mileage.
Odometers are not perfect, and there can be some discrepancies, but the one described by the lead plaintiff in this case is undoubtedly higher than what would be expected or allowed.
Electrek’s Take
I think it’s too light on data and proof right now to make a big deal out of this. I have no reason not to believe Hinton, but it could also be a specific problem with his vehicle rather than a broader issue and active deception from Tesla.
If the lawsuit is allowed to proceed, we may gain more insight, and it could encourage others with similar experiences to join in – resulting in more data.
In the meantime, I’ll remain in the skeptical camp on this one.
FTC: We use income earning auto affiliate links. More.
-
Sports2 years ago‘Storybook stuff’: Inside the night Bryce Harper sent the Phillies to the World Series
-
Sports1 year agoStory injured on diving stop, exits Red Sox game
-
Sports1 year agoGame 1 of WS least-watched in recorded history
-
Sports2 years agoMLB Rank 2023: Ranking baseball’s top 100 players
-
Sports4 years ago
Team Europe easily wins 4th straight Laver Cup
-
Environment2 years agoJapan and South Korea have a lot at stake in a free and open South China Sea
-
Environment2 years agoGame-changing Lectric XPedition launched as affordable electric cargo bike
-
Business3 years agoBank of England’s extraordinary response to government policy is almost unthinkable | Ed Conway