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It is “shameful” that black boys growing up in London are “far more likely” to die than white boys, Metropolitan Police chief Sir Mark Rowley has told Sky News.

In a wide-ranging interview with Sunday Morning with Trevor Phillips, the commissioner said that relations with minority communities are “difficult for us”, while also speaking about the state of the justice system and the size of the police force.

Sir Mark, who came out of retirement to become head of the UK’s largest police force in 2022, said: “We can’t pretend otherwise that we’ve got a history between policing and black communities where policing has got a lot wrong.

“And we get a lot more right today, but we do still make mistakes. That’s not in doubt. I’m being as relentless in that as it can be.”

He said the “vast majority” of the force are “good people”.

However, he added: “But that legacy, combined with the tragedy that some of this crime falls most heavily in black communities, that creates a real problem because the legacy creates concern.”

Sir Mark, who also leads the UK’s counter-terrorism policing, said black boys growing up in London “are far more likely to be dead by the time they’re 18” than white boys.

“That’s, I think, shameful for the city,” he admitted.

“The challenge for us is, as we reach in to tackle those issues, that confrontation that comes from that reaching in, whether it’s stop and search on the streets or the sort of operations you seek.

“The danger is that’s landing in an environment with less trust.

“And that makes it even harder. But the people who win out of that [are] all of the criminals.”

Met Police Commissioner Sir Mark Rowley said racism is still an issue in the force
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Met Police Commissioner Sir Mark Rowley

The commissioner added: “I’m so determined to find a way to get past this because if policing in black communities can find a way to confront these issues, together we can give black boys growing up in London equal life chances to white boys, which is not what we’re seeing at the moment.

“And it’s not simply about policing, is it?”

Sir Mark said: “I think black boys are several times more likely to be excluded from school, for example, than white boys.

“And there are multiple issues layered on top of each other that feed into disproportionality.”

‘We’re stretched, but there’s hope and determination’

Sir Mark said the Met is a “stretched service” but people who call 999 can expect an officer to attend.

“If you are in the middle of the crisis and something awful is happening and you dial 999, officers will get there really quickly,” Sir Mark said.

“I don’t pretend we’re not a stretched service.

“We are smaller than I think we ought to be, but I don’t want to give a sort of message of a lack of hope or a lack of determination.”

“I’ve seen the mayor and the home secretary fighting hard for police resourcing,” he added.

“It’s not what I’d want it to be, but it’s better than it might be without their efforts.”

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How police tracked and chased suspected phone thief

‘Close to broken’ justice system ‘frustrating’ and ‘stressed’

Sir Mark said the criminal justice system was “close to broken” and can be “frustrating” for others.

“The thing that is frustrating is that the system – and no system can be perfect – but when the system hasn’t managed to turn that person’s life around and get them on the straight and narrow, and it just becomes a revolving door,” he said.

“When that happens, of course that’s frustrating for officers.

“So the more successful prisons and probation can be in terms of getting people onto a law-abiding life from the path they’re on, the better.

“But that is a real challenge. I mean, we’re talking just after Sir Brian Leveson put his report out about the close-to-broken criminal justice system.

“And it’s absolutely vital that those repairs and reforms that he’s talking about happen really quickly, because the system is now so stressed.”

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Leveson explains plans to fix justice system

Challenge to reform the Met

The Met chief’s comments come two years after an official report found the force is institutionally racist, misogynistic and homophobic.

Baroness Casey was commissioned in 2021 to look into the Met Police after serving police officer Wayne Couzens abducted, raped and murdered Sarah Everard.

She pinned the primary blame for the Met’s culture on its past leadership and found stop and search and the use of force against black people was excessive.

At the time, Sir Mark, who had been commissioner for six months when the report was published, said he would not use the labels of institutionally racist, institutionally misogynistic and institutionally homophobic, which Baroness Casey insisted the Met deserved.

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However, London Mayor Sadiq Khan, who helped hire Sir Mark – and could fire him – made it clear the commissioner agreed with Baroness Casey’s verdict.

A few months after the report, Sir Mark launched a two-year £366m plan to overhaul the Met, including increased emphasis on neighbourhood policing to rebuild public trust and plans to recruit 500 more community support officers and an extra 565 people to work with teams investigating domestic violence, sexual offences and child sexual abuse and exploitation.

Watch the full interview on Sunday Morning with Trevor Phillips from 8.30am on Sunday.

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Labour deputy leadership: Contest to replace Rayner set to become two-horse race

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Labour deputy leadership: Contest to replace Rayner set to become two-horse race

Labour’s deputy leadership contest is on the brink of becoming a two-horse race between Bridget Phillipson and Lucy Powell, as the other three candidates scramble for nominations.

The official tally from the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) on Wednesday night put Ms Phillipson, the education secretary, ahead with 116 nominations.

Politics Hub: Catch up on The Immigration Debate

Ms Powell, the former Commons leader who was ousted in Sir Keir Starmer’s reshuffle last week, is behind with 77 – just three shy of the 80 needed to make it to the next round.

Bell Ribeiro-Addy, Paula Barker and Dame Emily Thornberry all had support from 15 or fewer MPs as of Wednesday evening, fuelling speculation they could follow in the footsteps of housing minister Alison McGovern and pull out.

Ms Barker, the MP for Liverpool Wavetree, told Sky News she was “genuinely undecided” and had a lot to consider.

Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson kept her job in the recent reshuffle. Pic: PA
Image:
Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson kept her job in the recent reshuffle. Pic: PA

Ms Barker, a former trade union official, has challenged the government on Gaza and welfare cuts and is part of the newly formed soft-left “Mainstream group”.

Her allies are keen for her to stay in the race, with one telling Sky News she “outshone the others by miles” during an online hustings event for MPs, and would be a “real alternative for the membership”.

Her supporters are expected to throw their weight behind Ms Powell if she does drop out, with one saying of the Manchester Central MP: “She is closer to Andy Burnham, and she was just sacked, so those who dislike Morgan McSweeney [the prime minister’s chief of staff] I guess will get behind her.”

However, while describing her as “slightly more left” than Ms Phillipson, they said she is “hardly a socialist”.

Lucy Powell was sacked as leader of the Commons last week. Pic: PA
Image:
Lucy Powell was sacked as leader of the Commons last week. Pic: PA

Read more politics news:
Who is Peter Mandelson?
How many illegal migrants are in Britain?

Some MPs want to avoid a race between Ms Powell and Ms Phillipson, believing there is not much difference in what they offer, but others had more praise for the former, calling her performance at the hustings impressive.

One MP said: “Her pitch is that she’s been the shop steward of the parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) in government, but now she’s not in government she can dedicate herself to the role of deputy leader full time without a department to run. She wants to focus on defining our voter coalition and making sure we’re speaking to them.”

They added that Ms Phillipson might be too busy to fulfil the deputy leadership role, especially with SEND (special educational needs and disabilities) reform coming down the track “which could be a horror show”.

Ms Phillipson has been making the case to MPs about her experience fighting populism in her Houghton & Sunderland South seat in the North East, where Reform UK is on the rise.

Dr Jeevun Sandher said he was won over by the education secretary following her pitch at the hustings in which she also spoke about the cost of living crisis.

The MP for Loughborough told Sky News: “Bridget was strong, articulate, and very impressive. She was able to communicate the deep thought we need to govern well and win the next election.”

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What do unions want from Labour’s new deputy?

The deputy leadership race was triggered by the resignation of former deputy prime minister and housing secretary Angela Rayner after she admitted underpaying stamp duty on a flat.

The candidates need 80 backers by 5pm Thursday. As of Wednesday evening’s tally, 235 MPs had made their nominations out of Labour’s 398 MPs.

Ms McGovern pulled out on Wednesday afternoon, saying it was “clear that the momentum of this contest had shifted, and I am not going to progress to the next stage”.

The MP for Birkenhead was rumoured to be Number 10’s preference before it was clear Ms Phillipson – who she has since nominated – would enter the race.

Timeline for the race

Many Labour MPs are keen to see someone who would work constructively with the prime minister to avoid the party becoming more divided.

There are also calls for the deputy leader to be from the north to balance out the number of cabinet ministers who represent London seats – which both Dame Emily and Ms Riberio-Addy do.

If more than one candidate secures 80 nominations by Thursday evening, they will then need to gain backing from either three of Labour’s affiliate organisations, including two trade unions, or 5% of constituency parties.

That process will continue until 27 September, meaning a contested election threatens to overshadow the party’s annual conference that begins in Liverpool the next day.

The successful candidates will then appear on the ballot for a vote of all party members and affiliated party supporters, which will open on 8 October and close on 23 October at 12pm.

The winner will be announced on Saturday 25 October.

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Labour deputy leadership: Contest to replace Rayner set to become two-horse race

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Labour deputy leadership: Contest to replace Rayner set to become two-horse race

Labour’s deputy leadership contest is on the brink of becoming a two-horse race between Bridget Phillipson and Lucy Powell, as the other three candidates scramble for nominations.

The official tally from the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) on Wednesday night put Ms Phillipson, the education secretary, ahead with 116 nominations.

Politics Hub: Catch up on The Immigration Debate

Ms Powell, the former Commons leader who was ousted in Sir Keir Starmer’s reshuffle last week, is behind with 77 – just three shy of the 80 needed to make it to the next round.

Bell Ribeiro-Addy, Paula Barker and Dame Emily Thornberry all had support from 15 or fewer MPs as of Wednesday evening, fuelling speculation they could follow in the footsteps of housing minister Alison McGovern and pull out.

Ms Barker, the MP for Liverpool Wavetree, told Sky News she was “genuinely undecided” and had a lot to consider.

Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson kept her job in the recent reshuffle. Pic: PA
Image:
Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson kept her job in the recent reshuffle. Pic: PA

Ms Barker, a former trade union official, has challenged the government on Gaza and welfare cuts and is part of the newly formed soft-left “Mainstream group”.

Her allies are keen for her to stay in the race, with one telling Sky News she “outshone the others by miles” during an online hustings event for MPs, and would be a “real alternative for the membership”.

Her supporters are expected to throw their weight behind Ms Powell if she does drop out, with one saying of the Manchester Central MP: “She is closer to Andy Burnham, and she was just sacked, so those who dislike Morgan McSweeney [the prime minister’s chief of staff] I guess will get behind her.”

However, while describing her as “slightly more left” than Ms Phillipson, they said she is “hardly a socialist”.

Lucy Powell was sacked as leader of the Commons last week. Pic: PA
Image:
Lucy Powell was sacked as leader of the Commons last week. Pic: PA

Read more politics news:
Who is Peter Mandelson?
How many illegal migrants are in Britain?

Some MPs want to avoid a race between Ms Powell and Ms Phillipson, believing there is not much difference in what they offer, but others had more praise for the former, calling her performance at the hustings impressive.

One MP said: “Her pitch is that she’s been the shop steward of the parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) in government, but now she’s not in government she can dedicate herself to the role of deputy leader full time without a department to run. She wants to focus on defining our voter coalition and making sure we’re speaking to them.”

They added that Ms Phillipson might be too busy to fulfil the deputy leadership role, especially with SEND (special educational needs and disabilities) reform coming down the track “which could be a horror show”.

Ms Phillipson has been making the case to MPs about her experience fighting populism in her Houghton & Sunderland South seat in the North East, where Reform UK is on the rise.

Dr Jeevun Sandher said he was won over by the education secretary following her pitch at the hustings in which she also spoke about the cost of living crisis.

The MP for Loughborough told Sky News: “Bridget was strong, articulate, and very impressive. She was able to communicate the deep thought we need to govern well and win the next election.”

Please use Chrome browser for a more accessible video player

What do unions want from Labour’s new deputy?

The deputy leadership race was triggered by the resignation of former deputy prime minister and housing secretary Angela Rayner after she admitted underpaying stamp duty on a flat.

The candidates need 80 backers by 5pm Thursday. As of Wednesday evening’s tally, 235 MPs had made their nominations out of Labour’s 398 MPs.

Ms McGovern pulled out on Wednesday afternoon, saying it was “clear that the momentum of this contest had shifted, and I am not going to progress to the next stage”.

The MP for Birkenhead was rumoured to be Number 10’s preference before it was clear Ms Phillipson – who she has since nominated – would enter the race.

Timeline for the race

Many Labour MPs are keen to see someone who would work constructively with the prime minister to avoid the party becoming more divided.

There are also calls for the deputy leader to be from the north to balance out the number of cabinet ministers who represent London seats – which both Dame Emily and Ms Riberio-Addy do.

If more than one candidate secures 80 nominations by Thursday evening, they will then need to gain backing from either three of Labour’s affiliate organisations, including two trade unions, or 5% of constituency parties.

That process will continue until 27 September, meaning a contested election threatens to overshadow the party’s annual conference that begins in Liverpool the next day.

The successful candidates will then appear on the ballot for a vote of all party members and affiliated party supporters, which will open on 8 October and close on 23 October at 12pm.

The winner will be announced on Saturday 25 October.

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On the streets with England’s flag-raisers – as one claims link to Tommy Robinson

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On the streets with England's flag-raisers - as one claims link to Tommy Robinson

“I’m incredibly patriotic,” says Ross, “I love our flag.”

He’s pulling a trailer loaded with England flags, otherwise known as the flag of St George, and Union flags, while his friends carry a ladder.

They’re heading out to fly flags from lamp posts in his hometown, Lichfield.

The group carried flags to raise around Lichfield
Image:
The group carried flags to raise around Lichfield

We’re here to spend an evening with them – keen to understand why flags are appearing on streets across England and what people make of it.

As the flags go up, several passing drivers beep and shout their support.

But it isn’t long before a man and woman walk past, visibly annoyed.

“Shameful behaviour,” the woman tells the group.

One of Ross’s group calls back: “Why can’t you be proud?”

“I am proud, but we’re absolutely tripping over from patriotism to an overt display of nationalism,” the man replies.

“There have been many occasions throughout history where the British flag has been adopted by groups that I don’t agree with”.

It’s a tense moment.

Read more:
Immigration becomes voters’ top issue again

What’s driven UK’s immigration levels?

Octavia raises a flag in Lichfield
Image:
Octavia raises a flag in Lichfield

I ask Ross, 27, if the flying of the flags is timed to coincide with concerns about immigration.

“Yes,” he replies. “My personal stance on it is, yes, this is us saying ‘you’re in our country’, right?

“This is what we stand for, you bow to this flag how we do, right, and you shouldn’t be doing illegal things, and for example, raping the women and committing crimes, which we don’t agree with.”

Ross says there's nothing wrong with being patriotic
Image:
Ross says there’s nothing wrong with being patriotic

He tells me some of the handful of people he’s with went to the same school as him. But Octavia, the only woman in their group, only met them recently.

“She bumped into us the other day, and now she’s a full-fledged flagger,” Ross says.

Octavia, 27, lifts her jumper to reveal she’s wearing an England flag dress.

“I saw him putting up the flags and I genuinely wondered why,” she says.

“He kind of explained to me, like, we’re protecting people of Britain, we are spreading awareness, that is literally all, and I was really happy to get involved”.

Octavia says she was happy to get involved
Image:
Octavia says she was happy to get involved

As the next flag is being put up, a man walks past and breaks into song.

“No surrender, no surrender, no surrender to the boats coming over,” he sings.

Ross, filming him, thanks him for his “performance”.

Many opinions but few solutions for debate that crosses dividing lines


Becky Johnson

Becky Johnson

Social Affairs correspondent

@BeckyJohnsonSky

Over the course of an evening in Lichfield, we struggled to find anyone who didn’t have an opinion on the flags appearing around the town.

Yet we did find people who were reticent to speak on camera, particularly those opposed to the flags being there.

This is a town where around 93% of residents were born in England, according to the census in 2021.

Unlike many British towns and cities, there is little visible evidence of the mass migration this country has experienced in recent decades.

Octavia, the newest recruit to the group of “flaggers” we met, grew up in Leicester, where just under 58% of people were born in England.

After meeting people opposed to the flags in Lichfield, she told me “they’re wealthy, they live in a nice area, they don’t actually have to go through the struggles that everybody else does”.

She then revealed her opposition to migrant hotels is in part because she was once at risk of homelessness and didn’t get state support.

But from what we saw, it would be wrong to conclude that there are obvious dividing lines in this debate.

On both sides, there were people from a range of different backgrounds, young and old.

Some see a display of pure patriotism. To others, it’s blatant nationalism that has to stop.

But in these uneasy times, the removal of any flags has been seized on as a political act that has sparked anger in communities.

A woman sees it all happen and tells us her husband has written to the council to ask for the flags to be removed.

She’s unhappy about how it may make the town feel for some people.

But she doesn’t want to go on camera – or even have her words recorded.

Bob says the number of flags going up has become 'extreme'
Image:
Bob says the number of flags going up has become ‘extreme’

I ask Ross about his political views.

He says he doesn’t belong to any party, but he tells me he supports Tommy Robinson – and had been with him the previous evening.

He got the flags they’re putting up from him.

Further down the street, we meet Bob. He’s just out for dinner. We get talking about the flags.

“It’s not a racist thing just to be wanting to look after your people,” Ross tells him.

Bob agrees, but is concerned about why flags are going up now.

Tap here to see the full line-up for Sky News’ The Immigration Debate

“It’s become quite extreme,” he says. I ask if he thinks the flag is being used as a racist symbol. “100% yeah, I do,” he says.

But an elderly couple over the road completely disagrees with him. “Of course, we support St George’s flag, we’re British,” the woman says.

Read more on immigration:
What’s driven UK’s astounding immigration levels?
Labour weigh up military barracks to house asylum seekers

How much does the UK rely on legal migration?

“There’s nothing wrong with showing the English flag,” her husband agrees.

It’s hard to find anyone who doesn’t have a view on the flags appearing around the town. We leave Lichfield with a sense that they’re provoking strong feelings on both sides of a very live national debate.

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