In the first half of the 1980s, when Georgia met Auburn, the Deep South’s Oldest Rivalry always provided legendary tales.
There were mythical legends, like from 1980 to 1982 when Georgia won three straight meetings powered by Herschel Walker, who led the Bulldogs to at least a share of three consecutive SEC titles and the 1980 national championship.
From 1983 to 1985, Bo Jackson and the Tigers returned the favor with three straight wins, twice knocking the Bulldogs out of the conference title race.
“It’s not like the Bama-Auburn rivalry, but there’s a lot of hatred to it, especially when somebody has the upper hand,” said Georgia linebacker John Brantley, a star in the 1986 matchup.
That season, the rivalry earned a new chapter. But it became legendary not for who dominated between the lines, but because of one of the most bizarre postgame incidents in college football history.
It’s the reason Georgia’s 20-16 upset of No. 8 Auburn on Nov. 15, 1986, is still known as the “Game Between the Hoses.” And it’s why some fans and players who were at Jordan-Hare Stadium in Auburn, Alabama, that night still haven’t forgiven the other side.
As the No. 10 Bulldogs prepare to face the Tigers again Saturday night, memories are resurfacing for Georgia quarterback Gunner Stockton‘s family — memories of the night Auburn officials turned water hoses on fans who rushed the field (and some who stayed in the stands), including his grandfather.
“The Georgia fans shouldn’t have been out there,” late Auburn coach Pat Dye told reporters after the game. “If that’s the only way to get them off the field, fine. It doesn’t hurt them. It only gets them wet. It’s better than hitting them on the head with billy clubs.”
‘That was a big, big rivalry’
Entering the 1986 game, the Bulldogs had been hampered by knee injuries to star tailbacks Tim Worley and Keith Henderson. Even the team mascot, Uga IV, went down when he fell out of a hotel bed and tore ligaments in his right hind leg. He was replaced by his older brother, Otto, who had never attended a college football game.
The Bulldogs were 6-3, 3-2 in the SEC, after losing to Florida 31-19 in the Gator Bowl in Jacksonville, Florida, the previous week. They were all but eliminated from the SEC title race and in danger of being left out of a desirable bowl game altogether.
On the other hand, the Tigers (8-1, 3-1 SEC) were very much in the mix for their second SEC championship in four seasons. If Auburn beat Georgia for a fourth straight time and then Alabama in the Iron Bowl two weeks later, there was a good chance it would win the SEC and play in the Sugar Bowl.
The Tigers, who were favored by 10.5 points, led the SEC in total offense and had the league’s leading rusher in Brent Fullwood. Auburn also led the league in total defense and had a menacing defensive front, led by end Aundray Bruce and tackle Tracy Rocker.
Brantley: “They were the dominant team, sort of like Georgia’s been a little bit of the dominant team in the series lately. They kind of had the upper hand around that time.”
Fullwood: “Yeah, we were confident. We had a great team. That was a big, big rivalry. We always wanted to beat Georgia for Coach Dye since he played there.”
Brantley: “If you look at the history of the series, there were so many cross-border ties. From Coach [Vince] Dooley playing at Auburn and coaching at Georgia, and Coach [Pat] Dye being a Georgia player and coaching at Auburn. It was a border war and driving distance to the games. You didn’t fly to that game.”
‘It was like a 15-round fight’
The Bulldogs were forced to use their backup quarterback, Wayne Johnson, after starter James Jackson returned home to Camilla, Georgia, to attend his grandmother’s funeral. Dooley had thought Jackson might return in time to play, but when he didn’t make it, Dooley broke the news to Johnson during a team meeting less than five hours before kickoff.
Johnson, from Columbus, Georgia, hadn’t started since the second game of the previous season. He had played sparingly behind Jackson in 1986.
Johnson nearly threw an interception on his first pass attempt against Auburn but eventually settled down. He ran for one touchdown and passed for another, giving the Bulldogs a 20-10 lead late in the third quarter.
With about 5½ minutes left, Georgia pinned Auburn at its 1-yard line. The Tigers drove 99 yards, throwing on every down, and Jeff Burger threw a 13-yard touchdown to Lawyer Tillman. Auburn went for a 2-point conversion, and Brantley sacked Burger to leave the Bulldogs with a 20-16 lead.
Georgia punted with 1:43 left, and the Tigers drove to the UGA 45 in the final minute. On second down, linebacker Steve Boswell made a one-handed interception to end Auburn’s threat.
After pulling off the big upset, a few Georgia players carried Dooley onto the field on their shoulders.
The Bulldogs’ celebration was only getting started.
Dooley (to reporters after the game): “The outlook was not very good. Our chances? You’d have to say slim. You always think you’ve got a chance, but if you put the percentages on it, ours were slim.”
Dye (to reporters after the game): “Georgia’s offensive front manhandled our defensive front, and running the ball is our bread and butter, but Georgia deserves the credit for shutting us down.”
Fullwood: “The only thing I remember about that game is they called back my touchdown. The officials said I was stopped when I wasn’t, and we ended up losing the game because of that call.”
Brantley, who had 22 tackles in the game: “Fullwood was a great back. I just remember the defense rallying and making a lot of plays when we needed to. We made crucial stops when we needed to and got off the field when we needed to.”
Georgia guard Kim Stephens: “We didn’t know anything about James not playing until Saturday, but then Wayne started and played the whole game. He did a great job, completing some passes and getting us ahead and then we just kind of held on.”
Dooley: “It was like a 15-round fight, and we were ahead on points. But Auburn was trying for the knockout.”
‘Not a spur-of-the-moment decision’
As soon as Johnson took the final knee, dozens of Georgia fans rushed the field — at a time when swarming the field wasn’t as prevalent as it is now. Auburn’s public address announcer asked them to leave the field more than once.
Auburn University police chief Jack Walton and Kermit Perry, the school’s assistant athletic director for facilities and game operations, were watching the Georgia fans from the press box. When a few of them started pulling up sod at midfield, Perry and Walton ordered the grounds crew to fire up water hoses that were already in place to force them to leave.
The previous year, some Auburn fans had made souvenirs out of the cherished hedges at Georgia’s Sanford Stadium after the Tigers’ 24-10 win, so school officials figured the Bulldogs faithful might try to get even.
Walton (to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution after the game): “This was not a spur-of-the-moment decision. Kermit and I discussed the situation during the second quarter, and things were going downhill. They started telling my officers in the third quarter to get ready, that they were coming.”
Former Auburn engineering professor and assistant athletic director for facilities Paul Conner (to The War Eagle Reader in 2011): “We told them, ‘Don’t go on the field; you’re not going to be allowed on the field.’ But they went on there and so we opened it up on them and got them a little wet. Coach Dye laughed about it. He said they needed a bath anyway.”
Loran Smith, who was the Georgia radio network’s sideline reporter: “The guy who made the decision to shower us down was Kermit Perry, who had come to Georgia on a football scholarship. He gave up football and was a pretty good hurdler for Georgia. He’s the one who made his assistants wet the whole damn student body down.”
Sports agent Pat Dye Jr., who watched the game with his mother, Sue, in the head coach’s box: “I was there and saw it, and I didn’t take any particular amusement or delight in it. I knew it wasn’t going to be a good look at the end of the day. But I guess Kermit got mad. It was a very disappointing upset in a big rivalry game. Maybe his emotions took over.”
Brantley: “It seemed like when we won the game, they went ahead and turned the hoses on us. It was just one of those things, you know, sore loser. They had a great team.”
Stephens: “I think I may have found out about the water hoses when an old high school classmate who was an Auburn student came into our locker room after the game. Security wasn’t the same as it is now, and he’d had enough to drink just to walk in without thinking twice about it. He may well have been the first person to tell me about it.”
Former Auburn athletic director David Housel, who was the school’s sports information director at the time: “I thought then, and I think now, that Auburn overreacted. I didn’t think there was any need for it. I thought it was an embarrassment. But you know, some people take exception to that because anything Auburn does is supposed to be right. But in that case, I thought two guys overreacted.”
Walton (to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution): “My only regret is that we didn’t get every one of them.”
‘I was not happy with Kermit’
Walton blamed alcohol for the fans’ behavior and rued the fact his officers couldn’t search women’s purses under state law because that’s where “90 percent of it gets in.”
According to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, there were 38 arrests on charges ranging from disorderly conduct, resisting arrest, criminal trespass and disturbing the peace.
One of the Georgia fans who was arrested that night was Lawrence Stockton, the current Bulldogs quarterback’s paternal grandfather who died in October 2010.
According to Lawrence Stockton’s widow, Suzanne Frederickson, who was at the game with him, he became upset when Auburn officials turned the hoses on Georgia fans who were in the stands. It was a chilly November night, and there were older fans sitting there.
Barbara Dooley, the Georgia coach’s wife: “I did not rush the field. We drove back to Athens, Georgia, soaking wet, let me tell you. I was not happy with Kermit.”
Frederickson: “My late husband was like, ‘I’m going to go down there and tell them not to spray the stands. It’s a bunch of old people up here.’ It’s kind of like the Downy commercial where you’re going, ‘No!’ He was a force of nature. He thought he could save the world. There wasn’t any stopping him. He got away from me.”
Lawrence Stockton (to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution): “I thought maybe the guy controlling the thing had taken the situation into his own hands. Before I could do anything, some guy reached over me, grabbed the nozzle and pointed it out of the stands.”
Frederickson: “By the time I got down there, he had been arrested and carried away. They threw him on the field and threw him down and handcuffed him and hauled him off. All this happened in a few minutes. It happened very fast.”
Lawrence Stockton: “An Auburn policeman came through a gate nearby, and I asked him if it was necessary to be spraying those of us in the stands. I told him there was no reason to spray those in the stands, that they were older people who couldn’t get out of the way. Then he told me, ‘I’ve had about enough of you I can take. You come with me.'”
Frederickson: “I tried to find out where the jail was. Traffic was awful. I ran over to the police station. It was about two miles, I guess. I thought if I got over there in time, I could get him out. There wasn’t any getting him out. There were too many of them. We had to sit there until about four o’clock in the morning.”
‘What’s Daddy done now?’
Lawrence Stockton was released on $58 bond. His son, Allyn, learned about his arrest when a friend showed him a photograph of his father being handcuffed by Auburn police in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution during homeroom at Rabun County High School in Tiger, Georgia.
When Lawrence Stockton returned to Auburn for his pretrial court hearing a couple of months later, according to Frederickson, he was offered a plea deal and was asked to sign a form that would prevent him from pursuing civil action against the city.
Stockton told prosecutors he would take his chances in front of a judge.
Allyn Stockton: “I’m like, ‘Is he still there? What’s the deal?’ And, of course, in the fall of 1986, the students couldn’t get their cellphones out and call home. I just had to wait until the end of the day and after football practice that evening to find out what happened.”
Frederickson: “They were in high school then. That’s not the kind of thing you go home and brag to your kids about.”
Allyn Stockton: “Daddy always had a Don Quixote aspect to him. At the time, it’s like, ‘What’s Daddy done now?’ I wish I could say it was uncharacteristic of him, but you see that picture and you kind of understand him a little better.”
Barbara Dooley: “I’m just glad to know that Gunner had a lively grandfather.”
Frederickson: “We get in front of the judge and the judge says, ‘What was Mr. Stockton charged with?’ They say, ‘We didn’t charge him with anything.’ Really? Yeah, so that was that. They didn’t charge him with anything.”
Allyn Stockton: “It’s kind of like John Riggins at Sandra Day O’Connor’s reception, you know? At the time, it’s very embarrassing and you wanted to keep it quiet. But as time goes on, it’s just kind of part of the legend.”
‘We were never going back’
On Saturday night, another Stockton from Rabun County, Georgia, will take the field at Jordan-Hare Stadium.
Once again, the Bulldogs’ SEC championship hopes might be on the line when they face their rivals in another edition of the Deep South’s Oldest Rivalry.
Gunner Stockton, in his first season as the Bulldogs’ starting quarterback, has been dating the late Vince Dooley’s granddaughter, Julianna, for the past few years. They met when her family was living in the Dooley’s lake home in north Georgia during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Gunner Stockton: “I didn’t know anything about it until they had talked about it. It was probably like two years ago when I first knew about it because my dad didn’t really talk much about it. But, yeah, that was a pretty funny story. He loved the Dogs, and it was just kind of cool to share that memory with him.”
Frederickson: “I’ll be honest with you: We were never going back. I have not been back yet. Whether I go this time or not, it’s still up in the air. We were never coming back to that town. I stopped at Buc-ee’s there in Auburn. That’s about as close as I’ve gotten to the University of Auburn.”
Allyn Stockton: “I don’t know if there’s any unfinished business there. I mean, if you don’t want your field stormed, don’t mess with the hedges. The reason they had the water hoses there was because they were anticipating retribution, that’s what that was all about. I guess they thought we were going to be Harvey Updyke and poison the oaks at Toomer’s Corner.”
LOS ANGELES — In the moments before Game 5 of the World Series, Trey Yesavage was under attack. Warming up in the visitors bullpen in right field at Dodger Stadium, surrounded by Los Angeles Dodgers fans on both sides, the Toronto Blue Jays’ 22-year-old right-handed rookie weathered insults of all manner and variety. At one point, Yesavage took a breath, stepped off the mound and turned to pitching coach Pete Walker.
“This is fun,” Yesavage said. “I love this.”
Of all the improbable happenings amid the Blue Jays’ run to the cusp of their first championship in more than 30 years, none rivals the emergence of Yesavage. His first game this season came in April in Jupiter, Florida, for Single-A Dunedin. There were 327 fans in the stadium. His latest, on Wednesday night, was a seven-inning, no-walk, 12-strikeout masterpiece that thrust the Blue Jays to a 6-1 victory and sent them back to Toronto one win shy of a World Series title. It was a performance that muzzled the mouthy masses in right field and the remainder of the 52,175 who saw an all-time performance from a pitcher throwing in his eighth major league game.
Against a lineup featuring three future Hall of Famers, in front of a crowd that understood the desperation Los Angeles would face with a Game 5 loss, Yesavage devastated the Dodgers over and over. They swung and missed 23 times, at his disappearing splitter and darting slider and carrying fastball. When they did make contact, it was mostly feeble; a solo home run from Kiké Hernández accounted for their lone run. Yesavage carved them like a pumpkin, appropriate considering the Blue Jays will attempt to secure their first championship since 1993 on Halloween.
In part because the kid taken with the No. 20 pick in last year’s draft went from Single-A to High-A to Double-A to Triple-A to the big leagues, where almost immediately everyone around him understood how he made such an ascent. Yesavage’s stuff is nasty, sure, but his demeanor — country boy who sees the big city as just another thing to conquer — exudes calmness and confidence without a whit of arrogance.
After Toronto’s Game 5 win, in which home runs by Davis Schneider and Vladimir Guerrero Jr. on the first and third pitches staked them to a lead they would not yield, Chris Bassitt and Shane Bieber, who together have thrown more than 2,000 major league innings and made 359 major league starts, sat next to each other in the clubhouse and simply marveled. They’ve known Yesavage for six weeks, and every outing — whether it was shutting down Tampa Bay in his debut or throwing 5⅓ no-hit innings with 11 strikeouts against the Yankees in his postseason debut — reinforces what they find most impressive about him.
“How he was able to make Game 5 of the World Series, mentally, look like any other day,” Bassitt said. “It could’ve been May. You couldn’t tell. He’s just calm, and he’s got wholehearted belief in himself.”
Said Bieber: “It would be easy to say it’s an ignorance-is-bliss thing, but I don’t think it is. It’s full conviction in himself and his game plan and his stuff. When he’s got it, he’s got it. Look in his eyes. And he had it.”
Bassitt continued.
“When he gets his splitter going, I think he realizes the other team has no chance,” he said. “Because no one has been able to figure it out. Early on, when he had the split going, it was like: strap in, because you guys are gonna be in trouble.”
Trouble doesn’t fully describe the Dodgers’ fruitlessness against Yesavage in Game 5. In Game 1, he had operated with no control of his splitter, leaving him to navigate Los Angeles’ lineup handicapped. Between his bullpen session this week and catch play Tuesday, Yesavage said he found his splitter grip and entered Wednesday with faith in it. He was awake at 8:30 a.m., called his girlfriend, ate an egg sandwich and two pieces of sausage at breakfast with his parents and brother, showered and relaxed on the outdoor patio in his hotel room with his family. He went to the stadium ready to perform.
And once there, he made history, striking out more batters than any previous rookie in a World Series start.
“I saw something on Instagram that someone took a video of me on my phone saying I was locked in,” Yesavage said, “but I was just doomscrolling on TikTok and Instagram reels. I just keep it as chill as possible. I don’t change anything I say to myself, but I’m also just here to go to work. I try not to think about anything.”
Head empty of concern, arm full of vigor, Yesavage stood atop the mound opposite two-time Cy Young winner Blake Snell and outdueled him. Yesavage felt good in the first inning. After striking out the side in the second, good evolved to great. And from there, every pitch was an attempted emasculation — fastballs up in the zone from the highest arm slot in the big leagues, and splitters and sliders in the bottom half that tease and tempt hitters into swinging even when they know they shouldn’t. Yesavage hunts strikeouts as if they’re prey, a quality that endeared him to another of the Blue Jays’ veteran starters.
“When they pulled him after 78 pitches in that Yankee start,” Max Scherzer said, “I was like, ‘Hey, would you have gone back out there and just navigated that?’ And he said, ‘No, I’m trying to strike everybody out.'”
Scherzer smiled.
“I know exactly what he’s talking about,” said Scherzer, he of 3,489 career punchouts. “You start smelling it. You start smelling, this is how I’m going to get you. I’m here to strike you out.”
Yesavage’s olfactory glands were working overdrive Wednesday. He struck out every Dodgers starter — and got their Nos. 2, 3 and 4 hitters, Will Smith, Mookie Betts and Freddie Freeman, two times apiece. Yesavage’s girlfriend, Taylor Frick, sent him photos throughout the game of her crying happy tears. Scherzer, manic as ever, celebrated a double play by yeeting sunflower seeds against the dugout wall. After a performance like that, in a moment so big, large displays of emotion are more than acceptable.
Meanwhile, Yesavage remained cucumber cool. He makes it easy to forget sometimes how new this all is. He and Bieber had been talking recently about introducing Yesavage to some high-end alcohol, to enjoy the spoils of the big leagues.
“You like tequila?” Bieber said.
“I’m 22,” Yesavage said.
Bieber chuckled.
“You were just in college, weren’t you?” he said.
He was, at East Carolina, where he had pitched in big games in front of big crowds at North Carolina and North Carolina State. But there was nothing like this. Dodgers fans are notorious for their razzing in the right-field bullpen, relentless and nasty and boundary-smashing, all part of the experience. Yesavage, who had topped their team in Game 1, received the gamut.
“If I were a Dodgers fan, I would try to rattle him, too,” Bassitt said. “Given the fact that he is 22. Given the fact that he barely has pitched on the road. Given the fact that this is the World Series. I’d be talking s—. But the reality is, I don’t think many people realize it doesn’t faze him. He’s like, just wait until I get on the mound. I’ll show you.”
He showed them all right. Over 104 pitches, each thrown with the weight of a nation on his shoulders, he manifested his pregame feelings into something bigger and better.
LOS ANGELES — Clayton Kershaw lingered on the field at Dodger Stadium, taking in the sights for the last time at the ballpark he has called home for his 18-year career.
His four children scampered about, catching balls he tossed. He shared an embrace with his wife, Ellen, who wore his No. 22 jersey and is expecting their fifth child. He kissed her forehead.
The Los Angeles Dodgers‘ 6-1 loss to the Toronto Blue Jays in Game 5 of the World Series on Wednesday night marked Kershaw’s final home game. The 37-year-old left-hander announced last month he would retire after this season.
Working out of the bullpen in the postseason, Kershaw didn’t get in the game Wednesday. The defending champion Dodgers head to Toronto for Game 6 on Friday facing elimination.
Kershaw wasn’t on the Dodgers’ roster for their National League Wild Card Series. He was added for the division series and kept on through the World Series.
The three-time Cy Young Award winner made a clutch appearance out of the bullpen in the 12th inning of Game 3, a 6-5 victory that stretched 18 tense innings.
With the score tied, the Blue Jays loaded the bases against Emmet Sheehan, who got the first two outs of the inning before Kershaw trotted to the mound to thunderous applause.
Ellen was a nervous wreck in the stands, covering her face with her hands.
Kershaw and Nathan Lukes battled each other to a full count. Lukes hit a slow roller to second base and raced to first. Tommy Edman fielded the ball and flipped it to Freddie Freeman to end the inning.
Kershaw was removed after getting that critical out. It might have been his final time on a major league mound.
In his prime from 2010 to 2015, Kershaw led the NL in ERA five times, strikeouts three times and wins twice.
He had one of the best seasons ever in 2014, when he finished 21-3 with a 1.77 ERA and 233 strikeouts to win both the Cy Young and Most Valuable Player awards in the NL.
The Dodgers replayed a video of Kershaw’s career highlights, including his 3,000th strikeout in July, on the videoboards before Game 5. Fox Sports aired a tribute during its Game 4 telecast on Tuesday with rapper-actor Ice Cube doing the narration.
In one of his last gestures, Kershaw turned toward the stands and waved, with fans capturing the moment on their phones.
LOS ANGELES — The Los Angeles Dodgers‘ bats, mostly quiet in October, were nearly silent in Game 5. If they don’t start making some noise in Game 6, their hopes for a title defense might be dashed.
The Dodgers flailed on offense for much of a 6-1 loss that put them on the brink with a 3-2 World Series deficit to the Toronto Blue Jays. After a historic 18-inning win over the Jays on Monday to grab a series lead, the Dodgers totaled only three runs in losses Tuesday and Wednesday.
Slumps are never welcome but especially not when a team is so close to a second straight World Series crown.
“We’re not really doing much as an offense, and whenever we get a chance, we don’t capitalize,” the Dodgers’ Enrique Hernandez said. “We’re going through one of those funks right now. It is just really bad timing to have those in the World Series.”
If you remove the Dodgers’ offensive outburst in a wild-card romp over the Reds, Los Angeles has hit just .224 with a .372 slugging percentage in the postseason, well down from its regular-season numbers (.253 and .441). The Dodgers are hitting .201 against the Blue Jays over five games and just .200, without an extra-base hit, with runners in scoring position.
The nadir might have been Game 5, when the Dodgers were dominated by rookie Trey Yesavage for seven innings and managed four hits and one walk while striking out 15 times. They had only one at-bat with a runner in scoring position.
“It’s been hard for us the last two days,” Dodgers first baseman Freddie Freeman said. “But we’ve been in this situation before.”
It was an overall lackluster performance for the defending champs in a pivotal game. The defense failed to convert a couple of key double-play opportunities early. The Blue Jays ambushed starter Blake Snell from the outset, homering twice in Snell’s first three pitches and becoming the first team to start a World Series game with back-to-back blasts. The Dodgers set a World Series record by uncorking four wild pitches, two from Snell and one each from relievers Edgardo Henriquez and Anthony Banda.
In other words, it’s not the kind of response you’d expect from a team that won the title a year ago and entered the series against Toronto 9-1 in the postseason.
“Everyone’s got to do their job,” Dodgers manager Dave Roberts said. “We’re at elimination, and we’ve got to kind of wipe the slate clean and find a way to win Game 6. Pick up the pieces and see where we’re at.”
The Blue Jays have mostly dominated the stars of the L.A. lineup, save for Shohei Ohtani‘s big Game 3, when he homered twice and reached base nine times over the marathon contest. That continued Wednesday despite Roberts’ reshuffled lineup: The first four hitters — Ohtani, Will Smith, Mookie Betts and Freeman — went a combined 1-for-15 with eight strikeouts.
With the Blue Jays averaging nearly six runs a game in the series, something has to change, even with Yoshinobu Yamamoto going for L.A. in Game 6 on Friday in Toronto. Of course, the veteran Dodgers have seen it all and remain nowhere near panic mode. But they know they can’t put it all on Yamamoto’s shoulders.
“Yoshi is going to show up, he’s going to take that mound, and he’s going to do his thing,” Hernandez said. “It’s just we need to do a little better job putting together runs. Man, it seems like whenever we get traffic on, we found a way to get ourselves out of the traffic.”
One thought: do what the Blue Jays are doing.
“It doesn’t feel great,” Roberts said. “You clearly see those guys finding ways to get hits, move the baseball forward. We’re not doing a good job of it.”
Last season, the Dodgers trailed the Padres 2-1 in the best-of-five division series and rallied to win en route to a World Series victory, something Freeman alluded to as a recent of example of the Dodgers meeting the challenge facing them now. But to win two, first you have to win one.
“There’s a fight in there,” Roberts said. “We’ve won two games in a row [before]. But again, it just comes down to one game. We have been in a lot of elimination games, and we found a way to get to the other side.”