Bill McKibben on Social Trust, Science, & Cryptocurrency — CleanTechnica Interview
This is the third article in a three-part series based around my recent interview with Bill McKibben, a legend in the world of climate activism and climate communication. In the first part, McKibben talked about climate grief, the climate crisis, climate activism, and US climate policy. In the beginning of the second episode, we talked about Tesla, unions, and Elon Musk. This article is about the same episode, but the second part of it, where we focused more on social trust, cryptocurrency, and Libertarianism. Personally, this was my favorite portion of the interview and I think the most important portion. (This portion of the interview starts at 13:07 into the SoundCloud and Spotify embeds below.)
In this part, I started off by asking McKibben to talk about how broken US society’s understanding of the scientific method is. I noted that we long saw this as a climate-specific problem, but that the pandemic highlighted how much it’s a broader problem, especially in times of crisis. Interestingly, McKibben quickly reframed that in an interesting and useful way:
“If you think about it, it’s not really a deep understanding of science that’s required, because I’m not sure people were way more scientifically literate in the ’50s when everyone lined up quite happily to get a polio vaccine. They were just more willing to trust in the sort of social structures of their world. And, you know, I get a front row to see what that old world kind of looks like ’cause I live in Vermont, which has the highest levels of social trust in the country, by all the ways that social scientists measure this. We’re very — you know, it’s a state full of villages. [It’s] the most rural state in the union, so people are used to governing themselves through things like town meeting every spring and things.
“Well, one result of this high level of social trust is that, despite the fact that it’s a rural state, with older people, with a Republican governor — all the things that should’ve led to big problems with COVID, it’s done a better job with it than just about any place in the world. Everybody went and got their vaccines. Everybody wore masks when they were supposed to. Those questions of social trust are really important, and they go back to some of these questions we were talking about when we were talking about, like, multi-zillionaires and things. You have to build societies that work reasonably well for everybody if you want to be able to make progress at all. Otherwise, you’ll end up in these worlds where people are full of rage and resentment and it turns to craziness — you know, someone tells them that it’s because Hillary Clinton eats babies or something, and then before long you’re off to the races. That’s the point I was trying to make before about how things are linked together.”
We talked a bit about how this attack on social trust goes back decades. I brought up former President Ronald Reagan and his attack on institutional trust with the line “I’m from the government, and I’m here to help.” McKibben recalled the whole line: “The nine scariest words in the English language are: ‘I’m from the government, and I’m here to help.’” (I’m finding via Google that he said “most terrifying” rather than “scariest,” which is even more dramatic, but I assume he used both — and they are nearly the same, of course. Also, I guess just be repeating them here we are, to some extent, reinforcing the fear mongering.) With his literary talents, McKibben then stated, “It turns out that the scariest words are ‘we ran out of ventilators or the hillside behind your house just caught on fire.’ And those are things you can’t address by yourself. That’s why you need working governments and working societies.
“Forget Elon Musk, the really dangerous billionaires in our society are people like the Koch brothers, who just have spent their entire lives working to make sure that we don’t have working societies, working governments — and have undermined that so deeply that it’s very difficult now to make the progress we need when we’re faced with an existential crisis.”
I couldn’t have said it better.
I then took that into the topic of “the cryptocurrency craze,” since I think those efforts are a big factor at play here. “It’s basically saying, ‘Let’s drop social trust and trust in governments, and go to a much more energy-intensive system because we don’t trust each other.’” I should give credit where credit is due here and recommend strongly that anyone curious about this matter read: “Why Bitcoin Truly Is Bad For The Climate & Environment, And Counter To Tesla’s Mission” and “How Does Bitcoin Work? What Is Bitcoin Mining? What Is Bitcoin Backed By?” (the former of which was written by the same author who predicted far in advance that Tesla would shift to much greater use of LFP batteries, based on his thorough first-principles analytical nature).
I said, “I mean, yeah, governments are not perfect, unions are not perfect, but they’re better than a free-for-all, don’t-trust-anyone society where we don’t put trust in each other. These all link together.”
McKibben added, “Cryptocurrency’s actually a beautiful demonstration of that, because it’s precisely — the log behind it, the stated logic behind it, is precisely what you said. We don’t want to have to trust anyone, so we trust this strange algorithm or blockchain that almost no one can actually explain to anyone.”
Before changing topics, I just felt a need to put extra emphasis on the inconvenient truth of Bitcoin and similar such systems that many fans of the concept would like to ignore: “It’s not a comparable system to like ATMs, banks, and whatnot. This is specifically a highly, extremely energy-intensive system, and even if it’s using renewables, you’re taking renewable energy potential away from other uses, and every single plan that tells us how we deal with the climate crisis says — you need a huge growth in renewables, electric vehicles, and a huge cut in energy use. …
“And you saw Tesla adopted it, saw humongous spikes in energy use and coal use — I don’t know where they found that data, but they did — and said, ‘okay, we’re not doing this any more because we saw the results.’”
McKibben rightfully and insightfully circled back to the political predecessors to this. “Your remark about Reagan before and that whole ‘the government is the problem’ thing — that’s the most important thing that happened in our political lives, in my political lifetime — the rise of this Libertarian notion that we should all just look out for ourselves — turns out to be the most dangerous of ideas, and it’s incarnated in things like Bitcoin that are quite clearly about not wanting to trust anybody else. And the fact that you have to burn a huge amount of energy in order to make it happen is just sort of the cherry on the top, you know.
“But it is unbelievably aggravating to think of people trying to desperately win this race to get more low-carbon energy out there and having, by now, non-trivial amounts — one, two percent or something of the planet’s energy — you know, the equivalent of a Scandinavian country worth of energy — being used for no good reason.”
Indeed.
McKibben also talked a bit further about the deeper history of Libertarians like the Koch brothers buying their control of the Republican Party, and the party’s now total blockade of good climate and energy policies. He also made an interesting comparison by pointing out that although those old oil, gas, and coal guys have very little in common with the Silicon Valley community, “the one place that they overlap is in this devotion to the idea everything would be better if government would just get out of their way. And everything isn’t better when government gets out of the way.” It’s an insightful link, and it does of course bring to mind Tesla’s recent decision to move its HQ to Texas, something that had not happened at the time of this interview. Texas, the land of — “We will take away voting rights. We will take away companies’ rights to mandate that their employees be vaccinated. We will take away basic rights of women. We will make it easier and incentivized for women who have been raped to also be criminalized. We will block human rights. But we will let corporations pollute as they wish and do whatever they want just as long as it isn’t too progressive.” But let me get back to what McKibben was saying:
“Yes, government is annoying, other people are annoying some of the time. Here’s a way to think about it that I try to think about it sometimes — when you think about this basic question of whether you want other people around, or whether you want to go off in a space capsule. Most people will tell you that college was maybe the best years of their lives. That’s what all the old alumns who come back to the college where I teach are always going on about. It’s not because, you know, they loved Sociology 101 so much. It was because it was the only 4 years in an American life where you actually lived the way that most people have lived for most of human history — in close physical and emotional proximity to a lot of other people. And that’s annoying. Sometimes the guy down the hall has the stereo on too loud at two in the morning. But it’s also deeply gratifying. There’s always people around to bounce ideas off of, do things with. You have a community, you know.”
I’ll leave it there. To hear more, listen to the full podcast.
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See part one of the Bill McKibben interview here: “Bill McKibben On Climate Crisis, Climate Grief, Climate Action, & US Climate Policy — CleanTechnica Interview.” See part two here: “Bill McKibben On Unions, Tesla, & Elon Musk — CleanTechnica Interview.”
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The world’s third-largest auto group is going all-in to lead the shift to electrification. With plans to pour a record over $16.6 billion into advancing new tech and EVs in South Korea, Hyundai is laying the groundwork for the future. Can the new investment help it surpass Volkswagen or Toyota in global sales?
Hyundai Motor Group, including Kia, announced on Thursday that it will “make the largest annual investment in its history in Korea this year.”
In 2025, Hyundai plans to invest KRW 24.3 trillion, or over $16.6 billion, in its home market. This is up 19% from the previous record of KRW 20.4 trillion (about $14 billion) set in 2024.
Hyundai said the reason behind the record investment “is because it believes that continuous and stable investment is essential to overcome the crisis and secure future growth engines.” A big part of the crisis Hyundai is referring to started last month.
After President Yoon Suk Yeol declared martial law and was later impeached on December 14, South Korea plunged into a political crisis. Korean buyers are hesitant to make big purchases, which has slowed demand.
Hyundai’s global sales slipped nearly 2% in 2024. Although sales outside of Korea were roughly flat, domestic sales were down 7.5%.
To boost growth in 2025, the auto giant is pouring resources to accelerate the development of new tech, EVs, and software.
Hyundai is doubling down on new EVs and tech
Hyundai said its focus this year is “on new business areas such as development of next-generation products, securing key new technologies, and accelerating electrification and SDV.”
The company will invest KRW 11.5 trillion ($7.9 billion) into R&D “to secure key future capabilities such as improving product competitiveness, electrification, SDV, hydrogen products, and development of original technologies.”
Another KRW 12 trillion ($8.2 billion) will be used to ramp up domestic EV production and improve manufacturing. Hyundai plans to continue making large-scale investments to build EV-only facilities in 2025.
Last year, Kia began production at its new Gwangmyeong EVO Plant, where it builds the new EV3. Later this year, Kia will start mass production of its PBV electric vans.
Hyundai will open its dedicated EV plant in Ulsan in the first half of 2026. The company plans to mass produce EVs, starting with an ultra-large electric SUV.
In the US, its most important market, Hyundai just opened its new $7.6 billion EV plant in Georgia. The first vehicle to roll off the assembly line was the upgraded 2025 Hyundai IONIQ 5, which now has more range, better style, and a NACS port for charging at Tesla Superchargers.
Hyundai will begin building its first three-row electric SUV, the IONIQ 9, in Georgia in Q1 2025. The larger electric SUV will be available in the US and Korea in the first half of 2025.
With several Hyundai Motor, including Kia and Genesis, EVs now eligible for the $7,500 federal tax credit, can Hyundai gain an advantage over the competition?
Hyundai is also the first company to sell its vehicles on Amazon in the US. The new 2025 IONIQ 5, IONIQ 6, and Kona Electric can now be purchased directly on Amazon’s website.
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Last month, I had the chance to visit Los Angeles and attend Micromobility America, a yearly industry tradeshow focusing on e-bikes, e-scooters, and other small-format vehicles. To get around the city for a few days, I borrowed a VMAX VX2 Extreme from VMAX’s Los Angeles distribution center and it made all the difference in navigating a city that is notoriously hard to get around.
My regular readers and viewers will know I’m an e-bike first guy, but that I won’t say “no” to any form of micromobility. I’ve ridden almost everything, so you can bet that I count electric scooters in my stable, too, even if it’s predominantly comprised of e-bikes. And I must say that there’s something nice about being able to stash your scooter in the trunk of an Uber or under a train seat when necessary.
While in LA, I was excited to finally get a chance to review a VMAX scooter, since I’ve followed the company’s US expansion with interest over the last year or so. As a Swiss-based company, VMAX first found success in Europe before expanding into the US with larger and more powerful models.
The company let me borrow a VX2 Extreme electric scooter, which is a 25 mph (40 km/h) scooter that is surprisingly powerful. It doesn’t look much bigger than a dirt-cheap GoTrax or similar budget scooter, yet it is much faster and more powerful—to the tune of 1,600W of peak power.
You can see how it rides in my video review below, or keep reading for the whole story.
VMAX VX2 Extreme Video Review
Becoming a scooter guy in LA
LA is notorious for being difficult to navigate, and even if you have a car, that doesn’t mean you’ll be getting anywhere quickly. Depending on who you ask, the public transportation system is either a trainwreck or somewhat decent, though no one will tell you LA has well-developed public transit.
That’s why I knew I wanted to be able to rely as much as possible on my own independent transportation while in the city, and a scooter made sense. With the VMAX’s 25 mph top speed, I could keep up with most city traffic, yet I could still easily stow it to fit in the trunk of a rideshare car or stash it in my hotel room without drawing much notice from the front desk.
My trip started with visiting VMAX’s distribution center in downtown LA, which had me taking a 30-minute walk that was both refreshing and a great reminder of how slow it is to get around a massive metropolitan area on foot alone. Don’t get me wrong – I love walking and I also use jogging as my primary form of exercise. But a pair of shoes just isn’t a very fast or efficient transportation method in a big city.
After getting to tour VMAX’s large warehouse and see how they fulfill customer orders from all over the US (as well as get a look at several different models they offer), the team let me borrow a VX2 Extreme and sent me on my way. My next stop was an event down in Costa Mesa near Irvine, which Google Maps told me would be a 43-mile (69 km) journey from Downtown LA, and which just so happened to be the exact range of the longest range version of the VX2 Extreme scooter (it comes with three battery options of between 28-43 miles of range depending which battery size you choose).
However, those range ratings are rarely at the scooter’s maximum speed and power level, which I intended to be rocking for most of the trip. But Google Maps suggested to me that it would be an easy train ride instead, with just a couple miles of scooting to and from the train station on either end. Awesome!
I scooted on over to the train station and arrived just in time… to miss the train by two minutes. No worries, back home there’s a train every 10 minutes or so. I checked the train schedule and to my horror, the next train wasn’t scheduled for more than two hours from now. Thanks, LA.
I didn’t have that kind of time – I’ve got a micromobility conference to get to! So I had to swallow my pride and order an Uber. Fortunately the scooter folded up and fit easily in the trunk along with my travel backpack and my camera backpack. That’s not something I can normally do on my e-bikes!
Forty-something miles later, I was in Costa Mesa with time to spare, which I spent happily burned by scooting around. It was my first chance to spend more than a couple of rushed minutes riding the scooter more pleasurably to get a real feel for it. The VX2 Extreme doesn’t have suspension but still felt quite good on the city streets, even when hopping the occasional curb or speed bump.
The build is obviously quite robust, without giving me the rickety feeling I get on cheaper quality scooters. And the power is surprisingly potent. When I put the scooter in its highest power setting, known as Beast Mode, I would often accidentally wheelie it while starting, since I tend to keep my rear foot on the board and push off with my front foot. Those wheelies were fun, but I decided to mostly scoot around in one notch below the highest power mode, as that felt more reasonable for everyday riding. But it’s nice to know you’ve got more power than you need, instead of merely maxing it out 100% of the time.
As the winter sun set quickly, it gave me my first chance to check out the lighting and turn signals on the scooter. Those turn signals are actually quite bright during the day, lighting up the handlebar ends up high for better visibility, as well as motorcycle-style turn signals down low on the rear of the scooter. The rear turn signals are flexibly mounted, meaning they can bend and bounce back into position instead of breaking when they inevitably hit something.
The turn signals were weirdly impressive. You can see in the image above how the lower ones light up the road and the upper ones are quite visible by sticking out to the sides on the handlebar ends.
Normally, I deride most e-bike and e-scooter turn signals because they’re typically diminutive and unclear, mostly serving as a flashing light so close to the vehicle’s centerline that they don’t achieve their goal of actually indicating direction. But VMAX has done a great job with these, as they’re both attention-grabbing and clearly indicate that you’re about to turn—which is important when quickly riding around cars at night.
I also found the speed of the scooter to be both a blessing and a curse. I forgot that LA weather isn’t always “Santa Monica in June”, and I was absolutely freezing in my hoodie – the only garment with long sleeves that I had packed.
Flying fast at 25 mph down wide Costa Mesa roads wasn’t helping, with that airstream cooling me even further. I had to decide between going faster to get to dinner sooner at the risk of turning into an icicle along the way or slowing down to cut the windchill. Unfortunately, the battery was so large that I couldn’t use the efficiency argument to encourage me to slow down, so I just continued bombing it down to the Balboa Peninsula at 25 mph, meeting up with friends to offer freezing cold handshakes and high-fives. Dinner was great, but the ride back was even colder. I thought I might go slower climbing the hills on the way back from the coast, but the dang thing zipped up the hills fast enough to keep my fingers feeling like they were encased in ice. But hey, at least the fast speed meant I could shorten the trip as much as possible!
The next day, I scooted to the show in the morning and found that the fairgrounds where it was hosted were closed off at most entrances. I guess they do this to limit how cars can enter (and ensure everyone gets charged to park), but I was an elitist with my own right-sized transportation and not about to let things like traffic control stop me!
Some scooting across the weeds and carrying the 45 lb (21 kg) scooter over a couple barricades later, I was in! I’m not saying you should ride in places you aren’t allowed, but just that there’s an advantage to being able to take creative routes when the vehicle you drive weighs as much as your leg.
I locked up at a bike rack and made it to the show in record time, taking full advantage of the fact that micromobility vehicles often allow you to chart your own path.
That was how I got around for next two days, putting around 30 miles (50 km) on the scooter. I charged it each night at my hotel, but I never used more than 30% of the battery, so I’m not sure I really needed to charge it all.
Ultimately, the VMAX VX2 Extreme scooter proved to be an ideal way to navigate the city. I took it on many rides, both for my morning and evening commute, as well as to meet up with friends and simply scooting around for pleasure. It always offered me more than I needed, both in terms of power and range, and felt comfortable while doing it. The 10″ tubeless pneumatic tires have enough squish to give me some comfort on rougher patches and are large enough diameter to handle all the sidewalk cracks and minor potholes I threw at them.
Basically, I was pretty darn happy with it. Of course you pay more for such a well-built scooter from a Swiss company, to the tune of $899, but it seems quite fair to me. It’s a long range and incredibly powerful scooter that hides in a surprisingly portable package, easy enough for me to toss in a vehicle or carry over a chain barricade. And with the extra features like safety lighting with turn signals, the 1,600W of peak power, the easily readable 4″ color TFT screen, the weather-sealed drum brakes combined with electric motor braking, and the stable folding design, the scooter treated me better than well for my three days riding it around central and southern LA.
VMAX has other even more affordable models starting from around $400, but I’d say the VX2 Extreme is a great Goldilocks option that offers more power and range than most people need in a portable package at a fair price.
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Tesla is about to release a design refresh for Model Y, its most popular model, and it raises an important question: can it reignite Tesla’s growth?
Fortunately, we have a good recent comparison since Tesla refreshed the Model 3 last year.
Tesla doesn’t break down sales per model so we have to rely on third-party data to track Model 3 sales.
There are varying estimates, but most of them are putting Tesla Model 3 sales between 500,000 and 530,000 units in 2023 prior to the refresh.
In 2024, estimates are putting sales at roughly the same.
Tesla delivery analyst TroyTeslike has data pointing to 520,000 Model 3 deliveries in 2024. The production changeover has certainly affected sales in the first of the year, but it looks like production and deliveries peaked in Q3 as Troy has Model 3 at the same volume of about 149,000 units in Q3 and Q4.
As with all other Tesla models, the peaked delivery volumes were also achieved with record incentives and discounts in Q4.
Can Model Y refresh be different?
Model 3 refresh didn’t help the program that much. It is virtually doing the same delivery volumes it was last year, but it doesn’t necessarily mean the same will happen with Model Y.
A lot of that depends on the refresh itself.
Earlier today, we had our best look at the refresh so far, and it is similar to the Model 3 refresh in the sense that it features new headlights and taillights, although different ones than Model 3, including light bars, as well as a more aggressive front-end.
The level of exterior changes is similar to the Model 3 refresh in terms that it is significant but not massively different either.
Tesla didn’t go into too many details about “under the hood” changes with the Model 3 refresh, but it did feature an improved suspension, a quieter cabin, and a slight increase in efficiency.
We can expect similar improvements to the Model Y.
There were some changes that people saw as negative, with the main one being the new steering wheel. Model Y is still the only vehicle in Tesla’s lineup that doesn’t have a stalkless steering wheel with force touch turn signals and a gear selector on the center display.
Considering all other Tesla vehicles went that way, this is expected to change with the Model Y refresh. Personally, I didn’t have any problem adapting to the new turn signals when driving the new Model 3 and Cybertruck, but I do admit that the gear selector is annoying.
I know many Tesla fans refused to get a Tesla vehicle with steering wheel stalks.
Electrek’s Take
Based on the information we have right now, I would expect the Model Y refresh to have a similar impact as the Model 3 refresh, but we could get a surprise.
Obviously, if there were significant improvements to the range, that would make a big difference, but I would only expect small incremental improvements at best.
A bigger surprise would be Tesla bringing something like the steer-by-wire and a 48-volt architecture from Cybertruck to Model Y. You have to try it to appreciate it, but the steer-by-wire on Cybertruck is super fun.
The design update looks good, but I thought the Model 3 redesign was even sharper, and it didn’t have much of an impact. I think new features or more efficiency/range would be the most significant difference makers.
What do you think? Let us know in the comment section below.
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