“True crime has been around from the very beginning. It’s the ultimate human drama.”
That’s the opinion of retired cold case investigator Paul Holes, who spent 27 years specialising in serial predator crimes. He’s also the man, who after four decades, finally tracked down the Golden State killer.
On the subject of serial killers – the bread and butter of his career – he’s resolute, calling their actions “the ultimate depravity” and labelling them “the true monsters of today”.
Warning: Contains graphic content
As you’d expect, his job was no walk in the park.
“I was being called out in the middle of the night, going to crime scenes, attending the victims’ autopsies, seeing horrific things,” Holes tells Sky News.
While seeing dark and disturbing things was part of his job description, there’s a growing army of people seeking out such content – not for work, but for pleasure.
Ryan Murphy’s recent hit drama Dahmer – Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story – about a man who claimed the lives of 17 young men and dismembered, preserved and ate parts of their bodies – has been a talking point for many, with Netflix saying subscribers watched 205.33 million hours of it in just one week.
Another chilling series, The Watcher – based on a real-life case that made a million-dollar mansion unsellable and stumped police to boot, has also been topping the streaming giant’s most-watched.
And recent TikTok obsessions with crime scene clean-ups show that nothing’s too graphic when it comes to satisfying our appetite for the darker sides of society.
So, why – despite real life being far from a utopia (a pandemic, ongoing climate crisis and more polarised political landscape than ever before) – are we so keen to spend our leisure time soaking up depressing and downright gruesome content?
It’s not a modern phenomenon
Holes, who has spent his career tracking down some of America’s most notorious criminals, says this hunger is nothing new – we now just have a multitude of ways to access such content, be it via the internet, podcasts or the numerous streaming platforms offering films, dramas and documentaries based on crime.
Holes, along with true crime historian Kate Winkler Dawson, fronts the hit podcast Buried Bones, dissecting some of America’s most compelling cold cases, including The Golden State Killer (an ex-cop who committed 13 murders and more than 50 rapes), The Zodiac Killer (who claimed to have killed 37 people in Northern California), and Doctor Crippen (an American homeopath who was hung in Pentonville Prison in 1910 for the murder of his wife).
Winkler Dawson agrees that our appetite for the unsavoury has been around for hundreds of years.
“I study the 1700s, 1800s and early 1900s, and we had public executions back then. People came and used picnic baskets and invited their children. And so, we are probably, in some ways, a little less obsessed than we were. People came to packed trials and still sent love notes to serial killers, even in the 1800s.”
‘The true monsters of today’
What are the ethics behind us enjoying true crime to such an extent?
Holes says it’s all about putting the victim at the heart of the case: “I spent my career working in real crime, so I saw first-hand the devastation of these horrific homicide cases. It really created a level of empathy for me because here you have a victim. The last moments of their life are just absolutely horrific. You have family members, friends, communities that are devastated by the loss of that person’s life.
“Now that I’ve stepped into the true crime genre, for me, from an ethical perspective, I always try to stay victim-centric. There is a component out there of consumers that are really fascinated with the offender, and most notably the serial killers.
“I take the perspective, it’s ok to study these individuals, to learn about them, what makes them tick, their psychology. But don’t glorify that. What they do is the ultimate depravity. In many ways, they are the true monsters of today.”
Winkler Dawson, who as a historian often has one foot in the past, says she’s more uncomfortable reporting on contemporary crime, than latter day killings.
For her, it’s all about the case.
“I’m not choosing these cases because the killings are gruesome or because the killer is fascinating. The cases we pick are more like the first case where they use fingerprints in a trial, or some sort of entomology [the study of insects], or some sort of a unique technique that people hadn’t heard of.
“I want cases that feel different and new and fresh that are important in history… As a crime historian, I love unearthing history that most people have never heard of.”
In Buried Bones, Holes and Winkler Dawson apply investigative, behavioural, and forensic techniques to provide a modern perspective, even to historical crime.
Why do killers kill – and why do we want to know about it?
A 2005 FBI symposium on serial murder suggested the following broad categories of motivation for serial homicide: Anger, criminal enterprise, financial gain, ideology, power/thrill, psychosis, and sexually based. Severe mental illness was also a cause of serial killing, with no fixed motive.
Aside from motives, the FBI also made clear that serial killers felt compelled to commit murder and did it because they both wanted and needed to.
The same 2005 report explained that serial killers selected their victims based on three things: availability (the circumstances in which the victim is involved that may provide the offender access for an attack); vulnerability (the extent to which the victim is at-risk of attack to the offender); and desirability (the attractiveness of the victim to the offender).
Most of us will never be unfortunate enough to come into contact with a killer. Yet what is it that makes us so keen to learn the intimate details of those who have?
The cast of The Watcher, who have been immersed in the real-life case that inspired the seven-part thriller about a suburban family terrorised by an unknown person in their new neighbourhood, have some ideas.
Bobby Cannavale, who plays Dean Brannock, told Sky News: “Particularly with these sort of famous crimes, whether it’s Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy, we want to know: what the heck were they thinking? What makes certain people tick and do those kinds of things?”
Cannavale says another draw to the show could be schadenfreude (a German word which translates as pleasure derived from someone else’s misfortune).
“There’s a certain sense of safety and knowing that maybe on some level, that’ll never happen to me. There’s a sort of safety in reading about somebody else’s horrible life.”
His co-star Naomi Watts, who plays his wife Nora Brannock, says she has a more prosaic approach: “[I think] what if it was me and how would I prepare? This is how I would manage it. This is how I would cope. I’d see the signs, especially now I’ve seen them here.
“I think there’s general fear and panic in the world right now. And we’re tapping into that, and we want to better understand it.”
What’s the psychological payoff?
Watt’s personal theory chimes with the findings of Dutch professor Suzanne Oosterwijk, a social psychology researcher at the University of Amsterdam, who conducted a study, published in the National Library Of Medicine in 2017, looking into the motivation behind morbid curiosity.
In it, she gave dozens of university students 60 different choices of paired images relating to nature, social, and physical categories.
Shown two images as thumbnails for two seconds, the students were asked to choose one to look at in depth. Most of the time, the students in the study chose to focus on negative social images over neutral ones.
Prof Oosterwijk wrote: “Participants did not consistently avoid images portraying death, violence or harm, but instead chose to explore some of them.”
She went on to suggest that participants could be subconsciously seeking information through such morbid curiosity.
“People may explore stimuli that portray death, violence or harm because it gives them handholds that are useful in dealing with future negative situations.”
So, one way to explain the obsession would be that we are learning from true crime and using the information we glean to mentally prepare for any threat – however unlikely – that could come our way.
In a follow-up study using brain scanning technology, published three years later in Scientific Reports, Prof Oosterwijk and her team found that reward centres in the brain were triggered when viewing negative images, when compared to neutral and positive ones.
So, although we may not like what we see, our brains want to see it nevertheless.
What’s the cost?
Retired investigator Holes admits that having such a concentrated exposure to predatory crime – serial predators, killers, rapists and the like – can leave you with a mindset that these individuals are around every street corner, when in reality such offenders are relatively rare in society.
Not surprisingly, after seeing some of the dark things he’s seen, he says somebody has to prove they are trustworthy and demonstrate that they are not a predator before he will accept them into this life.
Winkler Dawson on the other hand says despite her knowledge of some of the world’s most shocking crimes, she doesn’t look under the bed when she checks into a hotel room like most of her female friends. However, she admits she probably should.
Rare as they might be, Winkler Dawson says serial killers are a repeating trend rather than a product of modern life.
“People who are rare in our society were present in the 1700s or 1600s. Someone like a Ted Bundy, when he popped up in the 1970s, there was a declaration that no one’s ever seen somebody like this, the charming predator who could be your daughter’s fiancé and you would never know it. But he was not new.”
Such predatory behaviour may be uncommon, but she warns: “This type of person has been pervasive for hundreds of years. They have not stopped. We have not figured out a way to predict and conclusively stop somebody like this.”
Don’t have nightmares…
While millions of us love nothing more than to curl up on the sofa with a blanket watching the likes of Dahmer et al, spare a thought for those whose real lives and careers have been dedicated to solving the most abhorrent of crimes and visiting the most disturbing crime scenes – not the polished Hollywood versions that make it on to your preferred streaming service.
Despite the international acclaim Holes received for his part in tracking down and stopping the Golden State Killer, he says it’s the killers that slipped through his fingers that remain firmly on his mind.
“What sticks with me are the cases I failed to solve. Those are the cases that haunt me in the middle of the night – the trauma of visualising all these cases that I’ve been involved with.”
Outside of the desensitisation necessary to succeed in such a gruesome career, Holes says there has been an impact on him psychologically.
He ends the interview describing his own recurring nightmare – which he calls a graphic dream – a throwback from his time in the force.
“[I worked on this case] of a wealthy, reclusive, transgender man who was bludgeoned to death in his home. When I went out to the scene in real life, the flies had gotten to him and his face was just a crushed-in ball, full of maggots.
“This dream I have is, I’m in that very house, which was a very medieval-looking house, and I find a trap door, hidden underneath this Persian rug. And I pull the rug back, open up that door, and I look down these wooden stairs into the darkness.
“And as I shine the flashlight, that smashed face with the maggots all of a sudden pops into view. And it’s that every single time.”
Standard Glastonbury Festival tickets for 2025 sold out in less than 40 minutes after organisers adopted a new booking system.
The new system saw Glastonburyhopefuls get “randomly assigned a place in a queue” instead of having to refresh the holding page once they went live.
Organisers said: “Thanks to everyone who bought one and sorry to those who missed out, on a morning when demand was much higher than supply. There will be a resale of any cancelled or returned tickets in spring 2025.”
Earlier in the week coach tickets sold out within half an hour for the famous festival in Somerset, which is set to take place between 25 and 29 June next year.
Tickets for the annual event at Worthy Farm sold quicker this year than last year when it took around an hour for all of them to go.
They cost £373.50 plus a £5 booking fee this year, up £18.50 from the price last year, and were sold exclusively through the See Tickets website.
Fans were left outraged after spending hours queueing for tickets only to find some had more than doubled in price from around £148 to £355.
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The band’s long-awaited reunion has led to much speculation that Noel and Liam Gallagher will headline Glastonbury, but they denied this while their tickets were up for sale.
“Despite media speculation, Oasis will not be playing Glastonbury 2025 or any other festivals next year,” they said in a statement. “The only way to see the band perform will be on their Oasis Live ’25 World Tour.”
The headliners this summer on the iconic Pyramid Stage were Dua Lipa, SZA and Coldplay, who made history as the first act to headline the festival five times.
2026 is likely to be a year off for Glastonbury, with the festival traditionally taking place four out of every five years, and the fifth year reserved for rehabilitation of the land.
Mark Webber’s role as Pulp’s fan club manager started simply enough, writing newsletters and posting out small bits of memorabilia such as postcards, stickers and badges. But, just like the band he loved, he wanted to do things a little differently.
A balloon launch to drum up publicity in their hometown of Sheffield didn’t attract too many people, he recalls, but one did make it all the way to Slovenia. The following year, he cut up a pair of Jarvis Cocker‘s trousers into 500 pieces, “all put in individually numbered envelopes and sent out to fans”.
It was 1993, a decade on from the release of Pulp‘s debut album, but still two years before they were to achieve huge mainstream success. A few years later, they decided to offer Cocker’s old Hillman Imp car, no longer roadworthy, as a competition prize. “It was crushed, compacted into a cube, someone won it, and we delivered it in a truck to their garden.”
It was genius silliness, indicative of the time. Nowadays, if you’re a young fan who loves a band or an artist, you assemble on social media – but back in the 1990s, it was all about signing up to the official fan club.
For Webber, who started out as a Pulp fan himself, it was a dream job which eventually led to him becoming the band’s tour manager – and then, just before they hit the height of their fame, joining as guitarist.
Following the group’s second and long hoped-for reunion in 2023, he is now telling his story – from super fan to joining the band – in I’m With Pulp, Are You?.
It’s not an autobiography as such, but a scrapbook of moments told mainly through ephemera collected over the last five decades, from photographs and flyers to set lists and press clippings, as well as other notes and scribblings kept through the years.
Webber went through his hoard during the pandemic lockdown. “It was in disarray at the time,” he says. “I hadn’t looked at it for so long I was finding things I couldn’t even remember what they were.”
‘We were in a bubble – suddenly the world caught up’
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His story with Pulp starts in 1985, when he was an “obsessive” teenage music fan hanging out at a small independent record store in Chesterfield “where all the weird kids would go”. Back then, the band’s fan base was small, he says, and they were “amused” by the “daft, psychedelic kids” who followed them. They got to know them.
Webber eventually started helping out with stages sets before taking on the fan club duties. Then his role morphed again as he was called on to play guitar and keyboards at live shows, and began to contribute to songwriting.
He became an official member in 1995 – just before they became one of the biggest bands in the UK with their fifth album, Different Class, thanks to songs such as Disco 2000, Sorted For E’s and Whizz, and signature track Common People.
“Do you think it’s a coincidence that happened just as I joined?” Webber asks, laughing. “There was this trajectory. There was such a momentum building that it just became clear that, like, every next thing the group did was going to be more successful.”
It was a strange feeling, he says. “Because we were in the bubble at the time, just doing our thing, and suddenly the world had caught up and kind of realised how great Pulp was.”
I’m With Pulp documents some of the milestone moments in the band’s history, such as the 1995 Glastonbury headline set, before the release of Different Class, which came about at short notice after The Stone Roses were forced to pull out. Webber recalls how the band spent the night camping backstage.
“That was horrible because I hate camping,” he says. “And the concert, at the time it didn’t feel like such a great show. But everyone seemed to love it.”
Headlining Glastonbury – but camping in tents
Looking back at the roster of recent Glastonbury headliners – Elton John, Paul McCartney, Adele, Dua Lipa, The Killers – it’s hard to imagine any of them pitching a tent in the mud before performing to 100,000 people.
“Well, I’ve never spent the night in a tent since then,” says Webber. “So it changed my life.”
A more infamous incident in Pulp’s history was Cocker rushing the stage during Michael Jackson’s performance of Earth Song at the Brits the following year.
At the time, it didn’t feel as significant a moment as it has become in popular culture, Webber says. “There was disbelief in the moment, that he actually dared to do it. And that it was so easy to do. That’s the thing none of us could really understand, that there was no security or anything stopping anyone getting on the stage that easily.”
The aftermath was more concerning. “Like, ‘is Jarvis going to go to prison?’ Because we were starting a tour the next day.”
Ultimately, says Webber, most awards ceremonies and industry events are “boring – you have to do something to amuse yourself”.
After splitting in 2002, Pulp reunited for the first time in 2011, and then again for shows last year.
The response was “kind of amazing”, Webber says. It’s “quite likely we will play in England before we disappear again”, he hints. “There’s nothing confirmed yet but we expect there’ll be more concerts next year.”
‘I probably should have enjoyed it more’
The book documents Webber’s story. The item he was most happy to rediscover, he says, was the briefcase he used during his time as tour manager, adorned with a vintage ‘I’m With Pulp, Are You?’ sticker, which provided inspiration for the title.
“I knew I had it somewhere, but what I didn’t expect when I opened it up was that it still contained some contracts, to do lists, itineraries, a Bic biro, a packet of Setlers, and the business cards of various guest houses,” he says. “I used to carry this around everywhere, and in the days before we all had mobile phones, it had to contain everything we’d need for a concert or tour.”
After taking the time to look back, is there anything he would change?
“Well, I mean, I probably should have enjoyed it more.” Webber laughs. “I’m always like the slightly glass half-full, grass is always greener type outlook… I did maintain quite a normal life, I didn’t have an address book full of celebrities that I’d go and hang out with – not that that’s something to aspire to, but, you know, maybe I should have been a bit more wild at the time when I had the chance.”
I’m With Pulp, Are You, published by Hat & Beard, is out now, with a launch night at the ICA in London on 27 November
Paul Mescal praised fellow Irish star and friend Saoirse Ronan for speaking out about women’s safety in a TV talk show clip that went viral.
The two Oscar nominees appeared on The Graham Norton Show, where Eddie Redmayne was talking about how he trained for his role as a lone assassin in Sky Atlantic series The Day Of The Jackal, where he was taught how to use a mobile phone if attacked.
In response, Mescal, 28, joked: “Who is going to think about that though?”
He continued:: “If someone attacks me I’m not going to go [reaches into pocket] phone.”
But Ronan chimed in and said: “That’s what girls have to think about all the time. Am I right ladies?”
The clip quickly went viral on social media, with Ronan praised for holding the men to account.
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Mescal was asked on Irish broadcaster RTE’s The Late Late Show if they were surprised by the reaction the clip had.
“I’m not surprised that the message received as much attention that it got, because it’s massively important and I’m sure you’ve had Saoirse on the show, like, she’s… quite often, more often than not, the most intelligent person in the room,” he replied.
He said she was “spot on” and “hit the nail on the head”, adding it was good “messages like that are kind of gaining traction – that’s a conversation that we should absolutely be having on a daily basis”.
Ronan previously called the reaction to her comments “wild”.
She told The Ryan Tubridy Show on Virgin Radio UK: “It’s definitely not something that I had expected, and I didn’t necessarily set out to sort of make a splash.”
But she said men and women from around the world had reached out to her following the moment.
She said the men on the show “weren’t sort of like debunking anything that I was saying”, and explained Mescal “completely gets” the issue as they have talked about it before.